Kodak ceasing 35mm film production?

[david_craig1]

I have been told by a press photographer friend (and digital nut)that

Kodak is about to cease 35mm film production! Is he pulling my leg?

[swenson]

I heard that was only for consumer film a few days ago.

[stephen hazelton]

I think they're stopping film R&D. Last I heard, Kodak's film sales were dropping; Fuji's were actually rising.

[al_kaplan1]

It would seem that consumer film is where the money is. My local Walgreen's has 2 people at their 1-hour lab working steadily, and often can't get the work out in one hour. A constant stream of people are buying film and getting processing. Is this all just a "third world mindset" from living in a multi-cultural city like Miami?

[sal dimarco]

Kodak makes something like six BILLION dollars a year from film sales, which they believe will fall to only four billion dollars a year by 2006. They announced they are redefining their priorities and not investing big dollars in new film research, but putting the money into digital development. Film will be around for a very long time. Happy Snaps, Sal

[bill_bowden]

This was a big topic of discussion on photo.net last week after

Kodak made the announcement. Here's one thread:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00655

n

[bill_bowden]

For some reason, the Web site keeps putting a space between

the "n" at the end of this address, so if you can take the space

out, it should work.:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00655

n

[george_conboy1]

No, no, no. Totally wrong. Kodak will continue making consumer and professional 35mm film into the indefinite future. The major change with their film is that you will see more of it made in China and not Rochester due to labor costs.

 

Two days ago Kodak shut some of their photographic paper-making machines here in Rochester, and laid off nearly 40% of the workers involved.

[terry_rory]

Kodak announced last week that it will cut its dividend (first time ever) by 70 percent. It is laying off 6000 workers and its share price dropped by another 18 percent. (26th Sept BBC news)

 

However it is even more unhealthy on the digital products market. I can understand that. I mean, would you buy a Kodak digicam? (Or any Kodak 'camera' come to think about it.)

 

However the 35mm film rumour is not true as far as I can tell. It is more likely that production will move rather than cease as US labour is way too expensive compared to CER countries for instance. Kodak film I have bought in recent months has been manufactured in Greece, UK, USA and 'EEC' whereas at one time it all came from the USA.

 

Perhaps if Kodak had 'Evolved' it's best products rather than constantly confusing the market by chopping and changing they might have held onto customers that now use Fuji.

 

Royal Gold and Supra being axed then becoming "Royal Supra", High Definition (whatever that is!) Gold, Gold max, Gold Max Zoom etc etc ad ininitum. The packaging and formulations are all over the place and regular users never know how long their favourite product is going to last or what the packaging actually contains from one year to the next.

 

Fuji Frontier processing has become a sort of 'Gold Standard' of high street processing and Kodak seems to have let go of any dominance they had there as well. Fuji Frontier / Crystal archive based set-ups cater just as well to the digital consumer market as to the film market with one coherent system. Even Agfa are more prominent here in the UK than Kodak processing.

[john_collier2]

Consumer film R&D is being axed NOT production. Notice the word consumer NOT

professional. Kodak is now going to concentrate on digital, which is what they have

been doing for a number of years with no profits to show for it. So it is just a PR

exercise using vague promises of future success to prevent their shares from taking a

beating.

[Karim Ghantous]

Trevor, I too saw this weird new Kodak film, 'High Definition'. I thought, WTF? Looked at the package for an ISO rating and couldn't find one. Assumed it had to be something like Ektar 100. Turns out it's ISO 200.

 

Don't know if this rule still holds true, but apart from Kodachrome lovers, never use the 200 speed version of an emulsion as it's usually the worst. For me it's either 100 or 400 - who the hell needs the 200?

 

By assuming that people are not clued-in to film speeds, Kodak has made a mess of its film in terms of communicating to customers what exactly it is they're selling. People are not as simple-minded as Kodak believes.

 

Looking at the graphics on the back of the 'High Definition' film box, I find that I'm *laughing* at Kodak for the first time I can remember. Not a good sign for them.

[wayne_cornell1]

Royal Gold was an outstanding film. Shot my daughter's wedding with it a year ago in Hawaii and loved it. Went down to the store to buy some more and discovered they quit making it--replaced by the HD film. Don't know if it's the same emulsion but I do know zI won't pay the price Kodak want for it. It's Fuji for me in the funture.

[terry_rory]

As in most industries, particularly big mega-USA-corps, it seems Kodak is incapable of lining up the 'marketing men' and professional empire builder type managers and giving them a good healthy bullet in the head!

 

I can imagine one of those exercises where some shop floor level worker type in their own name on the company intranet, they then click on their managers name, and then his/her managers name and so on right through to the level of CEO. I did this once on the IBM system when I worked for them and it took 58 clicks until Lou Gerstner the CEO was reached!

 

I expect Kodak is just the same as IBM. A 50+ heirarchy company. Thats where all the real money goes. It doesnt go into product or pensions or wages for people who do all the 'real' work and R&D and sales or any of the real essentials it mostly goes to the MIGs (Men In Grey Suits) the empire building middle aged, middle class, mediocre, masonic, middle income, middle management who will never be made to understand what a poison and burden they are to us all.

[jay_.]

I firmly believe that film will indeed disappear for all intents and purposes within this decade (if a roll of Tri-X costs $49.95, who is *really* going to buy it?). But it will never be a situation of a company announcing overnight that they're going out of the film business. Rather, it will be a rapid and steady process, beginning with the cut-off of development of new film products, progressing through quick and successive discontinuation of individual emulsions as demand plummets, accompanied by a steep climb in prices. Paralleling this, E6 and then C41 processors will steadily shut down, the 1-hr film processing will become extinct and getting film processed will involve mail-order and longer waits especially for those outside major metropolitan areas, and processing costs will spiral upward alongside film itself. At that point, again within this decade, major worldwide film manufacturers like Kodak, Fuji and Agfa will try to sell off their film manufacturing interests--patents and/or plants to niche entrepreneurs or Asian or Easter European film manufacturers, assuming the numbers are enough to interest any. Should that fail, then and only then will they shut down. Whether there will be any film available by 2010 or not isn't worth debating, the cost will be extraordinarily high. Contrary to the ludicrous contention of some that 3rd-world consumption will be the savior of film, it will in fact be only the affluent collector who will find film affordable.

[bob haight]

Kodak is ceasing production of SLIDE PROJECTORS, not film. Your friend needs to keep his facts straighter as a press photag....

[crackers_.]

True. And because of security, only police will be allowed to possess film. Cameras will be bought by the government in a special 'cameras for cash' program.

[terry_rory]

So while film is still plentiful and cheap and D&P is plentiful and cheap and while there are still great film cameras being sold everywhere in the world by almost every camera company in the world why should I go digital? I'll go digital either when I want to or when I have to. Its not rocket science to go digital as some make out. Its only another camera format, there is no rush. I'll bet I could go digital when I wanted to. Some people try to make out that digital is like the Ark and we have to hurry or we will lose out! Get real all you digital evangalists. There is no great digital 'Ark' that will leave you behind. You can do it when YOU want to.

[roger_michel]

not only is film their largest single revenue category, it also produces the highest profit margin. it is their cash cow, and kodak is going to milk that cow as long as possible.

 

any speculation on what kodak's digital niche will be?? i forsee cheap digital cameras that you hand in when the permanently mounted card is full. you get back a CD rom and some prints -- and another empty camera. some version of the brownie is where they want to be.

[Rob F.]

A read a month or so ago that Kodak just opened a whole new, modern production facility for film. It's smaller than they had in the past, but it's there to meet future, albeit diminished, demands for film. Film isn't going away.

[Rob F.]

I read a month or so ago that Kodak just opened a whole new, modern production facility for film. It's smaller than they had in the past, but it's there to meet future, albeit diminished, demands for film. Film isn't going away.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Kodak will stop all film production when elephants can fly; all war is stopped; and one gets no spam emails; or junk mail.

[jeff_rivera5]

While I'm not sure about Jay's timeline, I think he lays out the scenario accurately. It's simple economics, capital can only be invested were long term increasing profits are expected.

 

I'm not sure the developing world will be films savior. Is it easier to put in minilabs (with plumbing and all related systems) or to have solar panels powering a computer and spitting out inkjets? And the digital camera folks will be pushing the 'don't you want to be modern and use digital' line big time.

 

Don�t sweat it, but unless your not planning on living much longer films going to get really expensive to use. Don�t worry, there�s always coating glass plates. Thats what I�ll be doing to keep my 8x10 going.

[bill_g2]

<p>Trevor wrote:

 

<p><i>I expect Kodak is just the same as IBM. A 50+ heirarchy company. Thats where all the real money goes. It doesnt go into product or pensions or wages for people who do all the 'real' work and R&D and sales or any of the real essentials it mostly goes to the MIGs (Men In Grey Suits) the empire building middle aged, middle class, mediocre, masonic, middle income, middle management who will never be made to understand what a poison and burden they are to us all.</i>

 

<p>LOL! Hey Trevor... have some pent up issues, do you?

 

<p>Fact is, people make business organizations work. Not all of those people are your heroic shop floor workers.

 

<p>Oh BTW... some of those evil villans who are poisoning and burdening you so much are also photographers. In fact, almost all that money, so undeservedly robbed away from R&D and the rightfully deserving folk everywhere, goes right back into the economy when those vile idiots spend it.

 

<p>Anyway... I've got to go now and figure out some suitable repentance for my sins. I feel so dirty.

 

<p>I'm a sellout. I cannot sink any lower.

 

<p>Might as well just go buy buy DSLR. :)

[david_doyle]

And you all forget that Hollywood uses film emulsions and will continue until

Spielberg is long gone...Blather, blather,blather I can still buy firebottles er ah vacuum

tubes.

[james_.1]

Jay- you went from 5 years to 10 years for the doomsday of 35mm film? What's next, 50 years? :D

 

Don't cite that Lucas film where he used digital video, since theater type projectors are mega bucks compared to cheap film projectors. Although that will come to pass as well at some point.

 

Sorry, 35mm film will be around and affordable for most of us for a good several decades. Jay shoots 2 rolls of film per day, and is as we know price conscious, so no wonder he's in a love-hate relationship with film. ; )