thinking of jumping to medium fotmat, any advice?

[dave_snay]

Hi all,

 

I do a mostly B&W photography and have been considering jumping to

medium format. I've been prowling this site for a while and decided

ask you all for some advice on camera choice. I've been ogling a

Mamiya 645E setup from Adorama for a while. I haven't seen any

reviews of this camera. Does anyone here have any experience with it

or possibly other recommendations? I like to shoot nature and

generally hike into areas that I shoot, so weight is an issue. I will

also probably use this for portraits of family and friends.

 

thanks,

Dave

[chris_henry1]

Plenty of choices nowadays with a lot of MF gear on the market. I suggest you

buy used; that gives you the least exposure should you decide MF isn't your

cup of tea.

 

As for a hiking rig, you know that whatever you are going to get will weigh

considerably more than the equivalent small-format setup, and have no more

automation than the average new 35mm SLR, and probably less. If you are

determined to experiment, have you also considered Pentax? I suggest you

read the reviews and comments of posters here to give yourself the benefit of

considering the range of 645 outfits available. I am only assuming that you

want an SLR, otherwise I would suggest the Mamiya 7-II, which gives you a

generous 6x7 and is pretty lightweight. Not cheap, though, and as a

rangefinder not so good for closeup, macro and telephoto applications.

[larry_lambert1]

Chris is absolutely on target. I can only add that the 645E is a good camera, but not exactly built for daily excursions. The lenses are well up to par, and the out-of-the-box approach is a plus. For landscapes the lack of interchangable backs is really not much of an issue. If my memory serves me correctly, the lenses for the E are mostly useable on the SVX and like 645's, so the entry into MF would not be halted if the camera seizes. Family and friends, doubtless it would be up to the task. I'd second Chris's steering you towards the Pentax, it's everything the E is but more. Only thing it gives up is flash sync speed, and a good tripod goes without saying (Cullman Titan is my fav.)

[ahaohio]

Isn't the 645E pretty awkward to tilt 90 degrees when you need to shift between "landscape" and "portrait" modes?

 

I would think it wise to at least hold the new camera you are thinking of buying before you jump.

 

And while it of course feels very good to buy brand new have you at all considered used? There a lots of MF cameres for sale right now at decent prices.

[brooks short]

Dave,

 

If you shoot BW landscape photography, having additional film backs is essential if you want to do any Zone System work. And a larger negative such as a 6x7 versus a 6x4.5 is a plus for landscape work as well.

 

My wife shoots square format landscapes with a Hasselblad ( I shoot 4x5 and envy her ease at composing on the Hasselblad) and exposes and develops her negatives using the Zone system. We've found that being able to develop a scene at different development times, using seperate film backs is much better than using one development time and correcting contrast ranges when printing.

 

You could just shoot with one back and expose the entire roll on one scene or variations of that scene. But having 3 film backs for different contrast ranges is much more convenient.

[dave_snay]

Thanks for all the advice so far folks. I was hoping for one or two at best. This really is a great group of folks!

 

Dave

[wayne_crider4]

I use Mf and Lf equipment and have handled the 645E. First I would not buy

anything new in mf unless I could recover my cost thru sales or was someone

with too much money such that it didn't affect my lifestyle. Even at that I would

not buy new if I was just an enthusiast. Mf can be a money sinkhole especially

for lenses and accessories as discernable by reading the B&H ads in

Shutterbug. Second I personally think the Pentax 645 is a much better camera

although the backs aren't interchangeable and it would cost you more to get

started, but lenses are the tops and are generally cheaper than Mamiya's. I

would think that you'd even be better off to get a used Hasselblad and

semiwide lens for the landscapes or telephoto for "nature" since there''s plenty

of used Hassy lenses around and prices are down. I consider nature

photography as meaning animals, birds, insects etc. Landscapes would be

tree's, flowers, mountains. Btw, if your needs do not exend much past the

8x10 print stick with 35mm. Even with the occasional 11x17 you can get a

lightjet with prefectly acceptable results. Remember that although a 80mm on

a medium format camera is approx equal to the view of a 50mm on a 35mm

camera, the dof is not the same! Think smaller apertures, longer exposures

times, diffraction and reciprocity compensation. As with anything, there's

always compromises, and mf has it own. I find in my shooting that when just

hitting the parks around town with the mf camera (RB67) i may as well be

shooting my Graphic Lf camera for the hassle and weight. At least the negs

are bigger. But for a 645, the Pentax might make me change over.

[dave_snay]

So it seems I've got lots more thinking to do. Many of you are recommending Pentax over Mamiya and at least one person recommends staying with 35mm unless I want to print larger than 8x10 on a regular basis.

 

I do all my own developing and printing, so the idea of working with larger negatives is appealling, but if I'd be better off spending my $$ on a 35mm upgrade from my old Ricoh, a nice Nikon N80 sounds rather appealing.....

 

thanks,

Dave

[doug_dolde]

Why buy a medium format film camera when the Canon 1Ds is equal or better?

[douglas_green1]

For starters, NO digital camera can match the effective resolution of Medium format. Depending on the specific format chosen the actual resolving capability of Medium format film cameras, scanned into digital, is between 40 and 60 Megapixels.

 

2nd: An EXCELLENT used MF system can be gotten for $500-700, and multiple lenses and/or backs, for $1000-1200.

 

A bare bones but high quality MF system could be gotten for under $400. The quality that such a $400 system can deliver is VASTLY superior to anything digital under $2000, and still measurably better than can be gotten in digital for under $5000.

[ronny_richardson]

<DIR>A bare bones but high quality MF system could be gotten for under $400. The quality that such a $400 system can deliver is VASTLY superior to anything digital under $2000, and still measurably better than can be gotten in digital for under $5000.</DIR>

 

<P>I have been considering trying MF. I know I want to buy used and dinged and dented is okay by me. I would like to buy everything a once rather than piecing things together. I've looked on ebay but most of the stuff I've seen is either piecemeal or claimed to be in great shape. Any suggestions?</P>

 

 

<P>Ronny</P>

[douglas_green1]

Well, you could certainly get a complete Mamiya RB67 outfit for $400-500. I happen to be selling a nice one for $439.99 right now. (I own 2, as well as an RZ67, so I decided to sell oneof them). Other examples: Complete Mamiya 645E systems can also be gotten for under $500. Mamiya C330 TLRs can be gotten for $300-400, Pentax 6x7 cameras can be gotten for under $600.

 

If you could settle for a fixed lens 6x6 TLR, Quite nice ones can be had for under $100, and Very fine Rolleiflexes can be had for under $300.

[douglas_green1]

Also, you are MUCH better off getting NICE used gear in excellent shape, than getting beat up used gear for bottom dollar. The cost is not much more, and the reliability will be FAR superior.

[nick_wilson2]

Dave

 

I think in b+w you will see a difference in the photos and in the darkroom. Bigger negs are nicer to work with and there will be a difference for bigger enlargements for the same film.

 

I think this is just apparent at 8x 10, even using 6x45, as there is a crispness and smoothness that is starting to cut in from the bigger neg. If you go with 6x7 or 6x9, and bigger enlargements, then this will be more so.

 

I started with a Bronica ETRS and carried it in the bush a lot. It wasn't too bad, although a rangefinder is inevitably lighter, but more limited. Depends on what you want to do. As stated, a good tripod is a must, and will be weigthy.

 

One advantage of a modular SLR system is you can leave some at home. A lens, body, back and waist level finder is not too heavy. Plus a meter, which could be in a 35mm camera if you are carrying it.

 

I think hire is a good test, if possible. Wish you well on your treks...take photographs and leave footprints!

[jsbc]

Used bodies are cheap now. Of course, there's some risk if you shop from ebay. Buy from one of the larger retailers and you may get a reliable body.

 

The larger part of your mf setup will eventually be the lenses. So don't scrimp on the body (unless of course, your plan is to ultimately get a better, sturdier body and relegate the 645e to a backup).

[jim_chow]

You're gonna have to compromise on weight vs. capability. As mentioned above, a rangefinder will give you lightweight, but isn't the best choice for macro shots. I've backpacked w/ 4x5, 6x17, and 6x6 systems. Whichever I choose depends on what I expect to shoot (do research on this beforehand). I just got back yesterday from a 17 mile overnighter to Anasazi ruins. As I had to pack in my own water for 2 days in the desert, weight was crucial, as well as shooting speed (time was limited due to ranger escort). Although I would have preferred to go 4x5, I chose the 6x6 (Rollei) w/ 90mm normal lens w/ macro capability plus a superwide 40mm plus a spare film back (shot Delta 400 and E100s) for the speed. Having interchangeable backs is a big bonus. It turned out that those two lenses were the only ones I needed.

 

Another possibility if you aren't rushed to shoot is a 6x9 monorail like the arca swiss or linhof tecknikardan s23 or a 6x9 field camera (clam-shell) like the horseman. The lenses are much smaller than MF slr lenses, cost much less, and you have macro capability, too. I've shot a lot with a 4x5 monorail since I figure the amount of work needed to take a shot is the same whether it's a 6x9 or 4x5 view camera (just the 4x5 equipment weighs more).

[houstonphotographics]

All are great answers. When all is said/done, make sure you have a good STOUT tripod /cable release for those great scenics (or portraits) for maximum quality with whatever MF camera you decide to purchase. Personally, I would grab a Hasselblad 500c as they are now a great buy, retain their value, superb optics and you can rent extra lenses as needed from most pro shops in most areas of the country.

 

My $.02