john_mode Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Hope you all out there can help me out with something thats been bugging me. I am a student and have gotten into large format. I really love it and havent picked up all the other 35mm and med. format stuff since. For the past year or so I have been using a Wisner Traditional 4x5 that I have borrowed from my boss. I love it but I love working with view camera and haven't really used any others except sinars and toyos in a studio. My problem is that the owner has offered to sell it to me for $1300, that includes the camera, f64 pack, caltar 210mm, 15 holders, loupe, etc..., That sounds good right? But I like to backpack and the traditonal is a little bulky and (relatively) heavy. What should I do go, with the Wisner or look around. I have been reading about Ebony and all its praises. It costs more but I'm willing to spend more to get something that will last longer than me. Or is a higher model Wisner right for me. Also I plan on using lenses between 90 and 210mm. With the occational extended bellows,close-up, "macro" work. Any suggestions, thoughts, or advice will be greatly appreciated. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_rice3 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I have a 4x5 Wisner tech. It's a very capable, though somewhat heavy, camera. Ron Wisner has gotten some very bad press here, so I would expect comments to that effect. You will want a bag bellows with the 90, and Caltar doesn't narrow it down much, but that taken into consideration, the deal sounds like a good one to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars ake vinberg Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Sounds like a great deal, especially since you have used the camera for a while and know that you like it. You can probably get most of that money back later by just selling the camera, so the only major downside is a better workout when backpacking. Consider adding a lightweight 4x5 for backpacking later. Ebony makes really nice cameras, but a new Ebony is not as good value as the deal you are being offered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_schroeder Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 John, I have a Wisner Technical Field 4x5. When I bought it in 1990 it was the only Wisner offered. It has served me very well. However, given the choice at the time, I would have purchased the Traditional. I am quite content with regular base tilts. I have never used the full 23 inch bellows; in fact, I replaced the regular bellows with Wisner's infra red bellows. They are shorter, so function better with my 135 lens. The Traditional is noticable lighter and smaller than the Technical Field. The deal sounds fair to me, especially since you are familiar with the camera. The Wisner cameras are certainly well built. They do tend to be larger and heavier than other offerings. The only other 4x5 cameras I have used to any extent are the Wista DXII and the Busch Pressman. The Wista is a very nice lightweight camera. It does not have quite the versatility or rigidity of the Wisner. The Busch, in my opinion, is the pick of the litter for adapting press cameras to field use. I don't think you would regret getting the Wisner. Yes, it is on the heavy side, however, if you are making a closeup shot, and have to move back about an inch or two, there is nothing like the luxury of having back focus. (It allows you to move the camera, rather than the tripod.) The bad press about Wisner comes from long unexpected waits for orders. Ron's forte is cameras, not business. By buying a good used camera, you don't have to wait, and you still have a Wisner. If I should ever decide to buy a 5x7 or another 8x10, I would buy another Wisner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonard_evens Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 See www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm for a review of the Toho FC-45X. It is in many ways an ideal view camera for backpacking. It offers the advantages of a monorail with extremely light weight. I use mine with 90, 150, and 300 mm lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_symchyshyn Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 More praise for Wisner. I've been using a 4x5 Technical Field for almost 10 years and have no complaints about it. (The real weight I've found, come from all the film holders I take with me... Not the extra pound or two the camera might be.) I've used nearly all the movements that it offers however I've never needed the amount of bellows it offers, and I don't think I've ever used rear rise. Overall, I'd buy another as well without any reservation! A great camera in all regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_candland1 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Another thumbs up. If you like the camera and it's in good condition. The price is less than a new one without lenses etc. As for weight, you would only save about a lb with the Ebony model that would compare in features. It might be a little nicer but it's also about twice the cash for the camera alone. Good luck and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cxc Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Good camera at a very good price, buy it. Have you backpacked with it yet? If not, you may find that saving a pound or two on the weight of the camera won't make a meaningful difference, overall, especially if the pack fits you decently. If it turns out really to be too heavy, you can sell it at a gain, and start investigating the super lights, like the Toho and the Gowland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_kasaian1 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 John, If what you want is a legacy, in a word= Deardorff! If 4x5 is what punches your ticket, two words= Baby Deardorff! -------Cheers & 'dorffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_manchester Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 You may want to look at the Deardorff "4x5 Special" as it will also accept a 5x7 back. I don't know the actual weight of the camera, It does not feel much heavier than my Speed Graphic (about 6.5lbs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_mccutcheon Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 John,You have a good deal here if the camera is in good shape and you like it. I own a Wisner Technical Field as well as Wista DXII and love both. Despite the long delays reported on this forum for Wisner cameras, the product is very good. I've purchased a used Ebony (my Wisner is used also) and was very disappointed because of all the forum hipe. I expected much more, and especially if you factor price,the Wisner wins hands down. I sent the Ebony back to the dealer. I use the 23 inches of bellows often and have the bag bellows for wide angle work. I must point out that the Ebony camera purchased new is a very good camera. Any camera when abused will get poor reviews. The Ebony is smaller, but if you want one with an equal bellows extension to the TF you must spend $4000 for the Ebony SV45U2 new which includes asymetrical movements. When you compare this to $1850 for the Wisner TF or $1495 for the Wisner Traditional brand new, the Wisner wins out. And it is a camera that will last a lifetime. I might point out that I use both Toyo and Sinar view cameras as you do. I have played with a used Traditional and found it very sturdy. I use the geared tilt on the back of the TF frequently so have no need for the Traditional, but the fact that there are less movements on the back means more stability. The Caltar lenses are very good lenses. I have a mix of Caltar and Schnieder lenses and find them very similar. I think that $1300 for the lot is a good deal if all is in good condition. The fact that you have used the camera is a plus. The grass always looks greener...get the Wisner and shoot. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_smith Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Personally, I am a fan of Deardorffs with Canham or Phillips my next choice. Given your circumstances.. GO FOR THE WISNER. This guy is doing you a big favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georges_pelpel Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I own a Wisner Pocket Expedition 4x5 since the end of 2001 and love it. It is very well made, light, rather small, and sturdy. I can use lenses from 65mm to 450mm (not tele) with the standard bellows. I would have to spend a small fortune to get a Ebony with such a range and I don't think my images would be better. I have used Wisner's customer services a few times to add a couple modifs on the camera (I bought it used) and to get parts (I broke a ground screen when the camera fell on rocks) and have been very pleased with the way I was treated and how quick my request were taking care of. The Traditional is a bit heavier than the Pocket Expedition but the deal you are being offered sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_ellis3 Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 A correction to Georges' statement that he would have to spend a small fortune to get an Ebony with the same lens range as his Wisner Pocket Expedition. The Ebony SV45 series has the same range (actually a little better). The SV45Ti (mahogany wood) costs about $2,400, the SVTe (ebony wood) costs about $2,750. The Wisner Pocket Expedition costs about $2,500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georges_pelpel Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 The current cost of the Ebony is actually $2500 and $2800.I was obviously referring to what I paid. I mentioned that I bought the PE used (in like new condition, 3 month old) for $1600. Used Ebonys were nowhere to be seen at that time and still are almost impossible to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_ellis3 Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I don't see anything in your message saying that you bought your Pocket Expedition used, nor do I see anything about the $1,600 you now say you paid for it. You simply said that it would cost a fortune to buy an Ebony with a usable lens range comparable to the range of your Wisner PE. I said a new Ebony SVTe would cost $2,700 because that's what I paid for mine when I bought it from MidWest Photo Exchange last month. The price of $2,400 for the Ebony SVTi was the price quoted to me by MidWest Photo Exchange last month when I was trying to decide whether to buy it or the SVTe that I ultimately bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_chow Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Another approach is to get a top-of-the-line pack, like one by Dana Designs (Rolls-Royce of backpacks). :-) I've done packing trips with a Toyo VX125, Fuji 617 w/ Rollei 6008i and a couple of lenses, and Rollei 6008i w/ a few lenses. BTW, the Toyo bellows are so supple, I don't need a bag bellows, even w/ a 47XL! Longest lens I can use is a 300/9 Nikkor (same bellows). So that's one less accessory you have to buy/carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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