Canon EOS 300D "Digital Rebel" Ships

[gjm1]

Kieth = Keith

 

Now one more time, sorry.

 

Gord

[jhlipsey]

I have very mixed feelings about this camera. On the one hand, it seems to be a respectable DSLR at a jaw-dropping price. On the other hand, Canon seems to have chosen to omit many features that could easily have existed in software in order to differentiate it from the 10D (such as flash exposure compensation, some metering abilities, better manual white balance adjustments, etc). With these software features, the 300D would be very close to the 10D, differing mainly for its plastic housing and slower burst rate. However, as it stands now, there are a number of situations where I'm happier with my G4.

 

Presumably, as the market continues to become more competitive, these features will be added to the "Digital Rebel". As a result, I'm going to hold out for another year or so.

[tom_swanson]

Ritz indicated that they shipped mine today.

 

I am SO looking forward to this. I not sure if I want to sell my Canon EOS A2 and Minolta Scan Dual III or ritually sacrifice them to the new digital rebel.

[masede]

I think I'll wait. My Elan 7/Pentax Spotmatic SP and Minolta DiMAGE Scan Dual III combo is serving me well, and until full-frame DSLRs become cheaper or I get richer, I'm going to continue using this setup.

 

-Assad

[stanley_rogouski]

I just bought one.

 

I actually wouldn't want to spend 600 dollars for build quality in a digital SLR the way I would in a 35mm camera.

 

If you buy a Nikon F100 over an N80, you know that 35mm film will be the same in 10 years. But if there were the possibility of the film's size changing in 24 months, what good does having a heavy, durable body do you (except if you're a professional)?

 

"I have to wonder who will mostly buy the Digital Rebel? People who are serious photographers who would never have given a thought to buying a plasticky tyro-level Rebel film camera but consider a plasticky tyro-level Digital Rebel because of the *relatively* lower price? Or the same people who buy film Rebels? I wonder if the latter group stops to consider how much film and processing they can buy with the price difference and how long it will take them to break even."

[yuriy y. vilin]

<i>Canon EOS 300D "Digital Rebel" Ships</i>

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And?

[tom_swanson]

Good point about the full frame sensor. I need to keep the A2 just so I can use actual wide angle lenses. (As wide angle lenses.)

[mormegil]

In response to who will buy this, pros who want an extra cheap digital or people who would buy a film Rebel:

 

I personally am drooling over this camera. I'm an amateur photographer. I have 2 thirty year old manual SLR bodies. I want a digital camera. They are convenient, give the freedom to shoot without film and processing costs, have autofocus, autoexposure (manual SLR right now, remember), etc.

 

I don't want a P&S, as I like control and the ability to do manual shooting, interchangable lenses, better DOF, better image quality etc.

 

I'm also a poor graduate student (I can only afford this on the old credit card over several months).

 

That only leaves me with one choice.

 

"I have to wonder who will mostly buy the Digital Rebel? People who are serious photographers who would never have given a thought to buying a plasticky tyro-level Rebel film camera but consider a plasticky tyro-level Digital Rebel because of the *relatively* lower price? Or the same people who buy film Rebels? I wonder if the latter group stops to consider how much film and processing they can buy with the price difference and how long it will take them to break even."

[jason_orth4]

I'm glad to see full-featured SLR cameras more accessible to the masses. Yes, the questions get a little tiresome...actually it's the lack of research on the part of many of the people asking that bothers me. However, I'd rather see more 300D posts than the Sunday Morning Op-Ed...er...Photographer column.

[mark u]

There's a place for a Rebel - digital or film - as a small light body, even for a pro. Examples:- skydiving, kite aerial photography, rock climbing... use your imagination. It's just another piece of equipment that helps you get an image. In most circumstances the quality of the image is determined largely by the glass on the front and the intelligence of the operator. True, the digital sensor isn't up to 1Ds standards, but plenty of pros already use the virtually identical sensor/capture of the 10D. You can use Velvia or Delta 3200 equally in a Ti or a 1v. Of course a pro wouldn't use a Rebel as an everyday body, any more than (s)he'd use an MPE-65 as an everyday lens.

[gerry_szarek]

FYI, the old searching button didn't work, until they put the google search so don't blame users for not searching 6 months ago. The new search unit actually works reasonably good, not great but acceptable, I would have preferred northern lights search engine but alas it is no longer available.

 

GS

[jay_.]

<< personally am drooling over this camera. I'm an amateur photographer. I have 2 thirty year old manual SLR bodies. I want a digital camera. They are convenient, give the freedom to shoot without film and processing costs, have autofocus, autoexposure (manual SLR right now, remember), etc.>>

 

I have around a dozen old manual bodies, any one of which with a roll of decent film can produce images better than my D60 and without me needing to spend hours in front of a computer phonying them into respectable image quality with software.

[tom_swanson]

"I have around a dozen old manual bodies, any one of which with a roll of decent film can produce images better than my D60 and without me needing to spend hours in front of a computer phonying them into respectable image quality with software."

 

Obviously you don't scan your slides/negatives.

[aa2000]

If there is anyone just upgrading from EOS 1v to EOS 300D, please let me know if you want to sell that antique piece of rusted metal (of couse, at price of an old rusted piece of metal). :)

[jim_larson1]

I don't think this forum gets enough traffic to warrent a 300D spinoff. Let's wait and see.

 

If a spinoff is required, then I like the idea of a Canon dSLR forum. The 300D is *darn* close to a 10D. Also, I would like the scope of a Canon dSLR forum to also deal with Post Processing Issues. Post processing of Canon RAW files is a legit issue to discuss, and is the one thing (in my mind) that distinguishes the Film and digital crowd.

[edtang]

I ordered mine this morning from Wolfcamera (ritz subsidary), they said their shipment size was 4000 cameras, but they only had about 2000 left, and going FAST, as of this morning.

[jmichaelc]

"I have around a dozen old manual bodies, any one of which with a roll of decent film can produce images better than my D60 and without me needing to spend hours in front of a computer phonying them into respectable image quality with software."

 

I would be interested in seeing a comparison of the two......The Old Jay Bodies gallery compared to the D60 galleries (Many) posted on photo.net . Digital Photography is much more than the inital point of capture. Post processing is always going to be a direct Characteristic of "Digital Photography". It's just one more thing folks need to consider before going digital...."Do you know how to appropriatly post process, and are you willing to accept the fact that Post Processing & Digital Photography goes hand and hand". If the anwer is no, by all means stay with film.

 

On another not, the Rebel appears to be just slight of the 10D. I'm looking forward to hearing other's experiences and seeing galleries.

 

Regards.

[jeffreyo]

<i>"Or the same people who buy film Rebels? I wonder if the latter group stops to consider how much film and processing they can buy with the price difference and how long it will take them to break even."</i><br><br>

 

Ok I did some calculating on this very idea.

I Currently shoot about 2 rolls a week. Cost of the film changes depending on what film it is. On average the film cost is around 6 dollars or 3 dollars per roll. Then there is the developing cost. I do not get prints I just get my film developed then I scan the negs my self. Cost is around 2 dollars a roll for c-41 or t-max. e-6 is a bit more. so over the course of year the average developing cost is roughly 4.50 per week in USD . Now This totals out to over a year

546 dollars or the cost of one decent lense. Now I am a amature and I strongly wish to improve. I could easy double the amount of film shot in a week or even triple it in trying to learn more. So considering this fact .. Which route makes more sence. That is if Im happy with the quality of the images the camera produces.

I keep my exisitng canon glass .. buy a 300d .. Take 3 times the photos and learn a LOT more in a single year than I could possible with a film camera. Makes sence to me. The dollars total out to this

shooting at 3 times my current rate.. film costs would be

18 dollars a week. Developing costs would be . 13.50 per week.

Over the course of a year. That would be about 1638 dollars. Or the cost of the 300d and a Really good lense.

So stick with what I have and spend big cash on film and developing. Or Get a 300 D and a REALLY good lense and learn for free from then on. The math really helps out.. The answer is rather clear.

Ill wait 6 months for the price on the 300 d to Drop then make out like a bandit *L* ..

[jeffreyo]

And in case folks do not think the price on the 300d will drop. Consider just how much market share that canon will gain with the 300d and then ask your self if nikon, pentax, sony, Olympus and a host of other digital camera makers, will allow canon to capture and hold on to that much of the market for very long. I would say the answer is no. I Run a camera store for a living. Price points are droping signifacantly and quickly. Over the last couple of months the 2 meg digital point and shoots have really hit rock bottom. Film SLRs in the consumer range have also droped in price. Companys like canon and nikon are not going to have much margin in the camera bodies that appeal to the consumer. They do have a Huge margin in there lenses. Its clear that the market is going to digital. So how to maintain your profits in all divisions when your point and shoots are droping in price? Simple .. Get the higher end user into a SLR and sell them Expensive lenses. I can see the day when there will be 400 dollar digital SLRs. Perhaps not in the 6.2 megapixel class. The significant drop in sensor cost in the 4 megapixel range could end up being the answer. Will there be a 4 megapixel Digital SLR in the true comsumer price range? I think so and I think in the next year we will see it.

[jim_larson1]

Well, that all makes sense; except that digital photography has a few other costs. It is not just the camera, but the Hard Drives, CF cards, software and other peripherals.

 

Some may say "but, you already have a computer". Yes, I have one, but the photography is far more demanding than word processing. I already put a second hard drive in my 6 month old computer, which was not bought with photography in mind. I will probably buy a DVD burner in another six months to backup RAW files. These costs are not needed for Email and web browsing!

 

The bottom line for digital vs film is "Do you like looking at pictures on your computer". If you scan film, then the answer is "yes". If you have albums, then probably not.

 

I am a computer geek, so I like digital photography. . I am definately taking many more pictures AND spending much more money doing it. You can say "look how much film you saved", but the truth is I would blow any savings buying the NEXT body ==> the truth is that I am outgrowing my current camera because I am taking so many pictures :)

[jeffreyo]

Jim. Are you a better photographer now than you would of been had you stuck with film? What would of been the cost to get you to where you are now using only film?

[joe_lempkowski1]

I guess the only people that will buy this camera are those that find $1000 worth of digital utility to their hobby. Photography is a hobby for many of us. It always cracks me up how much people here whine and cry about plastic lens mounts on a 50mm lens that cost $80 or that a camera is partially made of plastic. There must be a market for ultra-cheap cameras otherwise there wouldn't be a new Rebel G II. Personally, I hope Canon cleans up in this segment of the marketplace.

 

I was about to drop $1500 on a 10D, when this thing came out, so I decided to get this one instead. Digital SLRs will continue to get faster, better and cheaper over time, so I figured I had less money to lose buy purchasing this one now. As far as film and processing costs go, since I bought my A40, I rarely take my film cameras out anymore. Yes, this is a hobby for me.

[masede]

My average cost of digitizing an average 24 exposure roll is:

<p>

$5 for the film,

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$2 for processing into negatives only, at Walmart.

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Price of 300D: $999+shipping. I can take approximately 3600 pictures, have them processed and then scan them into my computer for $999, without losing the proper focal length of my expensive lenses. And I also get to do it all using good quality bodies and not some plasticky, fragile camera. So this is not for me.

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Assad

[jim_larson1]

Jerry,

 

Yes, I am now a better photographer with the 10D. And yes, it is partly because I have shot more pictures.

 

It is also because the historgram has allowed me to figure out this whole "E-TTL flash" thing. I now know when I *must* use "M" for flash, and have even known when to dial in negative flash compensation. . .

 

Cost to get where I am now if I used film. . .That question just doesn't make sense to me, as I don't like dealing with film enough to have bothered. :) For me, I have a "digital photography hobby". And a darn expensive hobby it is!!

 

For me, film photography is like world travel in the 1890's. A great hobby, really enjoyable. But with out air travel, world travel in the 1890's would not have been worth it . . to me.

 

Your milage may vary.

[jeffreyo]

3600 Pictures .. Sounds like an awful lot.

Now that calculates out to 150 rolls of 24 exposure film.

Ok so it still sounds like a lot.

Recently I was asked to cover an event. It was a all day company event that had contests and teams. I had to do team portraits and then candid through out the day. Approximately sixteen, eight man teams. The event took place in 3 separate locations. Then a evening wrap up banquet. During this I shot approximately 450 photos. That's a single day. The client wished only 8x10,s of the team photos and the remainder of the photos scanned to disk. Sixteen copies of the disks. One set for each team. I do not make much money taking pictures. Its far from my primary source of income. Had I not had to pay for the film used in this event. Had I been able to store all my images on a couple of 1 gig micro drives. I would of made at least an extra 150 dollars on this event. 150 being the cost of film and processing. Not to even mention the amount of time it took to scan all the negs and burn the CD's. It took me a full week of 3 plus hours a night after my regular job to scan the images to my PC. Then burn the CDs. That time alone could of been cut down considerably. To me, someone who would love to make a living out of taking photos going digital is the only way. Yes it can be a sizable investment upfront over the cost of using existing equipment. Yes the 300D and 10D do not offer full frame size yet. However I have seen the prints from the 10D and quality glass and they are as good or better than from my Film Camera and same glass. This price break on the 300D is exciting to me. It clearly shows that a quality digital SLR in the true consumer price range is on the way. I give it 6 months .. maybe a year at the most before the next great digital SLR hits the market at a sub 500 dollar price point. When that happens you will see them on the camera bar at your local wal-mart then you will see some serious moves in the prices of all digital cameras. Many of us curse wal-mart for there outlab service or for having ruined a negative or lost our photos at one time or another but you can not deny they are the largest retailer of cameras on the market today and they drive the pricing of cameras in the range that they sell. Sub 500 dollars is there target market and in that class they don't just outsell. They quadruple the sales of the closest competition. To top it off there Fuji Frontier printing from digital is superb.

Combine the driving forces of this market with what will undoubtely be the largest release of a camera in history in the 300D and an awful lof of business people are going to take serious note. The sub 500 digital SLR is on the way. Perhaps the SUB 400 Digital SLR. Its comming.