chuck_t Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Leica M7 and MP cost US$1000 more than the previous camera M6. What was Leica Thinking? The Leica M7 should cost around US$1999 and the MP should cost around,US$1500 or less, around the same as the M6. Leica should make the MP camera as a Entry-level camera, like the Nikon FM2n, so everyone could have a chance to use Leica. Once you got the users to buy the body, getting a profitable Leica lens is a must. Furthermore, Leica could make a MP2 later which combine a hybird shutter system, like the Nikon FM3A, and charges us US$2500 dollars. As the world economy go down, users may forget Leica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geddert Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 You are forgetting one important point. Leica's have become a "cult" camera. Thus the more leica charges for a camera or lens the more desireable it becomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_t Posted June 30, 2003 Author Share Posted June 30, 2003 I forget to metion that I am not trolling. I am making a good point. If your car insurance increase US$1000 dollars, or your water bill, Car repair bill, increase that much in percentage. What would you do? Simple: Complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_lehuray1 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Chuck -- What was leica Thinking?? Well, indeed, they cannot make MPs and M7s fast enough, sales are way up. As far as the hefty price increase, please take a look at how the American dollar has plunged in value against the Euro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart d Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 (1) Exchange rates are no longer as favorable for US residents. (2) Because they can. Who are Leica competing directly against with the MP and the M7? (Konica and Voigtlander don't count - they're not in the same market segment.) Sales of both models have been rather brisk, despite the down economy in the US. M6 TTL prices were extremely low for a while, especially when US buyers double-dipped with the rebates and Leica Day specials. The current prices are more reflective of what the rest of the world has been paying all along. Me? I just bought a mint 0.58 M6 TTL for less than half the cost of the MP or M7. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricks Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Chuck, your brain is playing trolling mind games with you... First of all, I also think that the MP and M7 are too expensive, thus I bought a mint M6TTL used instead. But to claim that the MP - Mechanical Perfection - should be an entry level camera?! Do you have any idea what it costs to develop a new mechnical camera body along with a new viewfinder technology, which is mostly hand-assabled and checked/adjusted/calibrated, distributed and supported worlwide and offered with a 5 year no-fault warranty (at least in the US). Considered that, I actually think the price of the MP is almost reasonable, even if I am not prepared to pay it. The M7, on the ther hand, uses more electronics and should be cheaper to produce than the previous M6TTL. Then again, a company like Leica needs to recover its R&D somewhere... "As the world economy go down, users may forget Leica." I'm sorry, you are trolling. The world economy slip has flatted out. and "users" don't forget Leica... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Yes indeed, the dollar is falling in relation to the Euro! We're bogged down in a war we can't get out of, paying for it with borrowed money, while we give tax cuts to the wealthy! Without those tax cuts they couldn't afford Leicas either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_. Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 <<the MP should cost around,US$1500 or less, around the same as the M6. Leica should make the MP camera as a Entry-level camera, like the Nikon FM2n, so everyone could have a chance to use Leica.>> On the Earth I'm living on, $1500 doesn't qualify as an entry-level camera. <<As the world economy go down, users may forget Leica>> It's the fondlers that Leica is making cameras for nowadays. If some people actually use them, that's their good fortune, but Leica could give a sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger c Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 They were thinking "Ker-ching" !!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bender Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 the next - and quite logical - step after complaining is to stop using the shitty, and switch to a functionally equivalent, but a cheaper camera.<br>Isn't that easy and obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry_soletsky1 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 I'm not privy to any insider information but if as Leica says the MP has lots of hand finishing, $1500 may not be a way to make any money. Cameras as loss leaders to sell equipment is not to me a viable business plan in low volume item Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_brown4 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Chuck, I agree, but you have it the wrong way. The M7 is the low cost entry model because Leica's actual cost is lower (cheaper to make electrci shutter, more plastic parts) with this model. Also, the AE, TTL flash, and DX are better for people just getting into a manual-style camera like the M7. The MP is a real manual camera, it might scare the newbies away too fast :^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bas1 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Chuck, Please provide your application for the Leica Marketing Manager position with your resume to Leica Kamera Gmbg, Solms, Germany. However having said that it surprises me how many people here still seem to think that product pricing should follow the cost + margin model, thus their Leica's should be cheaper. Depending on markets and product positioning pricing follows different rules and models, happens all the time. Have you ever seen how much Mr Calvin Klein charges for his underwear? Also consider the major uproar it would cause amongst the Leica install base if they actually came out with a $1500,- black paint mechanical camera. The entire 2nd hand market would collapse and many fondlers would see what they believe to be their investments cut in half or more. Not a wise thing to do considering the loyalty of Leica users. Besides over here in Europe the MP is priced pretty close to the M6 and M7 so no major surprises here. Europeans have looked with envy at the US prices in the past, and still I may add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art waldschmidt Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Hmmm....did someone mention "cult camera"? Here's the kind of cult camera I wish Leica would make for me: An all mechanical, black paint on brass, SLR, with well defined/accurate spot metering (perhaps a mirror lock-up feature)... and some funky artsy oddball optics to recapture some of the esoteric "signature styles" of some of the earliest optics (they could charge more for some of the un-coated versions!!!) - Cult enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_henry1 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Leica sells its cameras the way Harley-Davidson sells its motorcycles, Bentley sells cars, and Patek sell watches, the way most exclusive manufacturers sell to upscale niche markets. In many ways, raising prices makes the product more desirable, prevailing economic conditions notwithstanding. Leica's survival doesn't depend on the buying decisions of those most affected by the present economy. The numbers sold are small, the market large enough and affluent enough to absorb the production with adequate profit for the producer. They never have been a mass-market camera and they never will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bas1 Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Sorry this is a myth. Objects do not become more diserable when more expensive. What your trying to convey is called price elasticity (spelling?) This is a phenomena in pricing that correlates the market demand and price levels. Some articles have high elasticity and some a lower, meaning that the demand for lower elasticity products is less impacted by price. Food, gasoline etc. High elasticity goods have a high demand impact related to price. If BMW where $5000,- they would be selling more then they do now. But the reverse is also true. If prices are below a certain threshold you wouldn't be selling more because you've met your market demand. Product pricing is balancing this demand to achieve optimum margins. So expect a price increase on the MP if demand keeps up. I don't think they would able to sell more if the price where less and with their capacity they wouldn't be able to achieve same margins, but that is an other economical law (diminishing returns) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wind.dk Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 One year ago the cost of a new M6TTL was approximately $3000. So what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee_shively Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Obviously the world economy is pretty healthy. Instead of people jumping out of windows because they've lost their fortunes, they're out there buying overpriced, antiquated photo equipment. The answer, my friend, is "used Leicas". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew n.bra hrefhttp Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 The RRP here in Australia for the MP is $AUD 4800, give or take $AUD 50. I just bought a v.good condition 1964 M3 for $AUD 2875. It came with a 12 month warranty, which was lucky as the shutter failed 7 hours after I left the store. Nevermind, back to the shop, who shipped the camera off to Adeal for a shutter repair and CLA. So at the end of the day I'll end up with a camera every bit as good as the MP, for $AUD 2000 less (yes I know loading is slower and there is not built-in meter, but I can live with the former and have always used hand-held incident meters, so I don't care about the latter). My point? Although I'm quite a Leica fan, I think they got the pricing very wrong for the M7 and MP. Of course I can't see them going out of business, but alienating your fans from your current product can't be good in the long run... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_brookes Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Wow - this is an emotive subject, from your responses!! In fact it is simple economics. The object of a Sales Manager is to sell the production available. Not more - not less. The price needs to be set so that total sales are just reached. If an object acquires cult following then you can raise prices or increase production or both. But you can't plan for a cult following. Leica have built the MP for a specific market and it has been priced so that all production is sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymond_tai Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 I dont' know about those figures. Leica prices hit bottom about a year ago when the Euro was still weak so I bought a second grey market M6TTL body new for US$1450. Prior to that they went for around $1550 here in HK. Last month I bought a brand new grey market no warranty M7 with the latest serial number reflecting the viewfinder update for under $2000 when the Euro like right now was very high. New M7 prices in the US are only a few hundred more than what I paid but you folks get 5 years full coverage Passport protection? It is a bargain. IMHO the M7 is a much better camera than the M6TTL. I don't own the MP but I surmise the high prices has more to do with supply and demand than anything else. Over here the dealers will not discount MP's but they don't have any either so that tells you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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