M4 on roadbike in Alps

[joop]

Hi, Next week I'll make a tour in the Alps with my roadbike.

(tires at 7 bars = 80 PSI, downhill-speed up to 75 km/h ->

a-lot-of-vibrations!)

I would like to take my leica with 25/4, 35/2 (and 90/2.8) with me.

How do I carry this along?

i already read some older posts on this subject.

The thing is, i plan to cycle ~ 120m km a day in the mountains, which

is quite heavy.

I know from experience, that it's very unpleasant to have a back-pack

or something similar on your body, while making these kind of tours.

So if i would use a handlebar-bag, for the camera, would it be

impossible to keep the RF aligned?

Do I really have to take my -way too heavy- nikon F3, with those huge

24/2.8 50/1.4 etc. lenses :-( ??

Are the M-lenses also sensitive for vibrations?

Thanks for your advice.

[henry_ting2]

3 lens and a body is a lot of weight to carry on a bike. You will labor in the Alps even with "granny" gears. As an alternative, why not consider a P&S digital with a zoom lens.

[henk]

Think of it this way, IF your rf wont keep aligned you still can use the lenses zonefocussed or at a guesstimated distance. If that would be unacceptable to you take the F3(remember to take sealed batteries in that case). I personally always take the toughest equip(F2) i have, ive had enough troubles allready. And btw if your worried about the weight, leave more clothes and other scheap stuff at home.

 

Greetings,

[nom]

Buy yourself a Ricoh GR1s(or GR1V) and leave the Leica home. You will be happy for not thinking about your valuable camera been damaged from the vibrations AND for not carrying a backpack (if you haven't done it before for so long rides then you can't imagine how bad it is! - and forget about handlebar bags, you will damage everything)

[joop]

I have been thinking of a olympus mu-II (=stylus-Epic)

with the 35/2.8 lens. Price here in hollnad is 99 Euro.

But I already have a M4, HexarRF and F3!

With 3 great camera's it would be a bit silly to buy again another one! Moreover, it's nice to have a wideangle (21 or 24/25)

with me in the mountains.

I would really prefer to take on of the cameras I currently own.

Anyway, I'll go there by car, and will bring a decent camera anyway, for other shooting I plan to do.

But a bit OT:

Is this olympus capable of producing well exposed slides?

or is the lens too cheap? is the AE accurate?

[kaiblanke]

Hi Joop,

<p>

first of all: The Olympus is a nice camera with a capable lens. Not the same as the Leica, but very nice indeed. Since you can never have enough cameras, this might be a logical addition to your existing ones. But vibration also kills these, even faster than your Leica.

<br>

You should have no problem with the Leica on a bag it if is padded: I take mine usually with me hiking, sailing or on a motorboat and never had a RF misalignment problem, and I never had problems with the lenses. Your lens choice is fine, don't forget the 90. Bear in mind that currently there are more than 30 degrees Celsius even in heights of about 2000 metres, so take enough water with you, even if 120 km does not seem to be so much. When I have been hiking the last days in the northern alps my water usage was something like 1 liter/hour ...

<p>

Hope this helps -

[robert_clark]

I responded to a similar question in June, this is what I wrote then:

 

Probably the most comfortable and convenient way to have the camera quickly to hand is to put it in a bar bag. I use an Ortlieb which is totally waterproof and it is padded with closed cell foam and has foam dividers. This is suspended on suspension handlebars and ensures a very gentle ride over the roughest terrain. Two years ago I cycled 2,500km from Germany to Turkey over some very rough roads in Eastern Europe. Absolutely no problems. I use the same system over roads here in India which are so rough you wouldn't believe they are still called roads. On Monday. I'm off to Germany, Austria and Switzerland and will use the same system, carrying two M6's and lenses.

 

Well, I'm now back. I travelled over some very rough paths - simply cut through rocky terrain with lots of rough rocks jutting up and sometimes tree roots. I travelled over these pretty fast sometimes and the bike was jolted around. Austrian cycle paths are sometimes extreme mountain bike routes. I even cycled on a footpath down one mountain, which is more or less like riding down the bare mountain face. Neither camera was in the LEAST affected, both rangefinders are still totally accurate - I have all my slides and negatives back - all (technically at least) perfect.

 

The suspension system of the Ortlieb means that while the bike is jolted, the bag only sways. It probably helps that the handlebars are also suspended. I put my own closed cell lining and dividers in, since it is much cheaper, more efficient and more flexible than you can buy. I simply cut up a sleeping mat. The arrangement of the bag is four compartments underneath, for 24mm, 90mm, 135mm and SF20. On top of this, divided by the foam sit the two M6's with a 50 and 35 on.

 

I have used the larger Ortlieb, which is more or less a standard size to all other makes. It comes with an inner zipped pouch which fits in with velcro; you can move this to the inside of the lid (Attatch it with sticky backed velcro)for all your bits and pieces. I have a closed cell foam lid that bends over and sits over the cameras, so they are completely protected.

 

I even dropped the bike twice, once on grass and once on gravel - no problems. The bag works very well as a stand alone camera bag, and since it's completely waterproof it works well here in the monsoon. I'll even be taking it, with both Leicas to Ladakh in a few weeks.

[david k]

Hi Joop.<br>

I agree with Robert. I use the Ortlieb handlebar (<a href="http://www.ortlieb.de/_prod.php?lang=en&produkt=u3plus#" page=" ">this one</a>)

with the photo - insert and had no problems. I did not test it as extensively as Robert did ;-) but it worked well for a tour from "Lüneburger Heide" to Denmark, a quite bumpy and dusty tour (at least in the heathland)...<br>

Btw: Enjoy your tour!<br>

[karl_yik1]

carrying gear on a bike is nothing next to carrying it in a rucksack! Bring all your best lenses, otherwise you will regret it! ;]

[lex_jenkins]

I put a lot of miles on my old Ricoh SLR kit which sat on a folded over towel in the bottom of a Kirtland handlebar bag on some seriously rugged and dusty roads in Mexico. No problems. Hard to imagine that the supposedly durable Leica wouldn't withstand a cycling tour given a little reasonable protection.

 

If anything the handlebar bag helps dampen vibration. I even carried sixpacks of beer in mine to drink during road trips in Mexico - they never got shaken up enough to overflow with foam.

 

Dunno how bike bags are made today, mine's 20 years old, but the combination of a wire frame and bungee cord stabilizer really didn't transmit much direct road shock, and those roads in Mexico were pretty rough. Some of 'em weren't really even roads, more like gravel pits without vegetation.

[rgh]

I did Europe from England to Egypt biking/camping for 4 months with an M4, 35mm

Summilux, and 90 Elmar-C. It was just enough, but not too much. As long as your

camera is fine going out I wouldn't worry about it. I had a handle bar bag. A couple

years later after travels in Asia I got a CLA just to check everything, but even then it

wasn't really needed. The M4 is a great choice I think.

 

These days on day rides through city streets I use the over one shoulder across the

chest to the other side and the camera is suspended from too much vibration.

[gerry_szarek]

I would either go with the handlebar pack or a chest pack (made by Lowe Pro) similar to what ski patrollers use to carry their walky talkies in the US. Take all your lenses, especially the 35 and 90. Hopefully you will bring plenty of film.

 

Leave the Nikon at home.

 

GS

[Aoresteen]

The Ortlieb handle bar bag is the way to go. The only thing I would add is to put the M4, film and the lenses in ZIP-Lock baggies. While the Ortlieb is water proof, it is so only when closed.

 

When I was on active duty (US Army Special Forces) I carried SLR's and lenses all over the world in a ruck sack. Packed correctly there were never any problems from vibrations (C130's vibrate a lot!) or from a parachute jump when the ruck hit the ground before I did. I carred mostly a Canon F1 or my Spotmatic SL.

 

Leave the Nikon at home, take the M4. Take 20% more film than you think you will need.

[daniel_fusion]

Hi, leave the 25/4 at home, it is much too close to the 35/2. Better combination might be 21 - 35 - 90. My favourite for the alps ist 21 - 35 - 135. Using the 90/2,8 the 28 might be an alternative for 25/4 and 35/2.

Think of Neopren-bags by Zing. Try to avoid vibrations by using socks, shirts and towels around your photographic staff.

 

For streets 80 PSI is quite normal, but offroad it might be uncomfortable and sometimes even dangerous because of the missing grip. Reduce to 45 - 60 PSI.

 

120km cycling a day? - don't forget taking some pictures.

Or do you like shooting pictures right from the handle-bar while cycling?

Then the 25/4 might get a revival because of its fixfocus-qualities.

 

Enjoy your ride

[jay_.]

<<3 lens and a body is a lot of weight to carry on a bike. You will labor in the Alps even with "granny" gears. As an alternative, why not consider a P&S digital with a zoom lens.>>

 

I really doubt the truth of the first sentence, but assuming it is, I'd go on a diet and do some exercise in the next week to take off the 5 lbs Joop's kit weighs, rather than shooting a digital P&S and coming back with crap photos. I'd take something like a Rollei 35 before I'd go the P&S route, especially digital. I've subjected my M's to some heavy vibration including single-engine plane and helicopter travel, which is a lot worse vibration than motorcycles. Buy some 2" thick foam rubber and wrap each piece in it, put it in a handlebar bag that has a little freedom where it's attached. The idea is to isolate the cameras as much as possible from the bike.

[peter_white2]

On most rides I carry either a Rollei 35S or a Leica with the Tri Elmar. I keep it in a saddlebag on top of my rain gear. I've never had a problem. As long as you have some padding around it, there's no reason to worry.

 

PJW

[joop]

Thanks all of you for the replies! After reading your advices,

I'm going for it and hoping the best for my RF-alignment

I might take a very small bag for just the body,

that I can put around my waist only during the downhill-part to avoid too strong vibrations.

(What Dan Brown is recommends in this old thread looks good to me:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005KYg )

Btw. it's not going to be off-road cycling.

My road bike has a light-weigth oversized aluminum frame,

and it does not damp any vibrations it's very stiff.

I guess the weight of my camera lenses is not going to be much more than a full water-bottle.

Unfortunately I do not have a 21mm lens or a 15mm to take with me!!

So I'll take the 25 anyway. My plan is to do (again) the famous cols:-de Galibier/Izoard/l'Iseran etc.

[ray .]

In answer to your OT question about the Olympus Stylus Epic:

 

It's a great camera, so small and light you can stick it in your pocket and forget it's there. Really well designed and mine has always exposed films perfectly. For slides it should be fine, but not up to Leica or other non-P&S standards. I've scanned some film I shot with it, and the outer areas of the frame are definitely soft. For nice snapshots, however, it's ideal.

 

Personally, I like traveling light, and in most situations where I don't have a car to lug gear around in, it's Leica or Hexar w/35mm lens- and that's it. I'd suggest maybe bringing 2 lenses, max.

[stephen_w.]

Good decision to pack it on your body:

 

Gets rid of 5 pounds of unsprung weight

 

The springs, your legs, dampen out the vibrations

[pete_su]

A point and shoot, digital or otherwise can work remarkably well if you are well

attuned to its capabilities and limitations. It's certainly not clear to me that you'd get

better pictures out of a scale focus camera. I've made 11x14 prints from negatives

i've shot in my stylus epic that are as good as anything I've done with Nikons or a

hexar. Similarly, I've had 8x10 prints made from my digital point and shoot that are

as good as any 8x10 color print I've seen.

 

For a real contrarian answer, which doesn't really belong on this forum, I'd say get a

Canon Rebel G. Small, light, practically free.

[henry_ting2]

Jay, you're very knowledgeable in Leicas which you have shown on this forum, but when it comes to cycling, we are talking about a very different sport. First of all, the heading is M4 on roadbike in Alps. For someone to attempt climbing in the Alps, we are not talking about your weekend road warriors on their exotic bikes, but real hard-core cyclists. If you ever watched Tour de France, you would have an idea of what the event is like covering 150km in a mountainous stage. Besides, I doubt the original poster, being an experienced cyclist would have an ounce of body fat to even attempt a tour like that, let along telling him/her to lose some weight for the odyssey. The question of one Leica M, plus 3 lens will have a severe negative effect on 40km or so. Ever wonder why the roadbikes used in the mountain stages are as light as 16 pounds and they are flanked by their team-mates doing all the pulling. Try grinding in a gear by yourself in several hours climbing the "category one" inclines and you will get the idea. I tried it once during my younger days when I was a hard-core cyclist and was physically fit enough to complete it, but I seriously doubt that I can do it again. On a flat tour, quite frankly it wouldn't make any difference, but carrying an M with 3 lens cycling in climbing the Alps is a completely different picture.

[nom]

Henry is absolutely right: I am not sure if our forum friends realise how difficult is this tour. You have to have done such rides to understand the additional 3kgr value on your stamina. And do not forget: there is a big difference between rider's weight and weight that the rider carries. Joop, do NOT downhill at 75km/h with a handlebar bag on.

[peter_white2]

Sorry Henry, but racing in the Alps and touring in the Alps are two entirely different things. The extra weight of an M4 and three lenses can easily be accomodated with slightly lower gearing. When it doesn't matter whether you finish the ride in 6 hours and 20 minutes vs 6 hours and 25 minutes, a little extra weight is meaningless. Plenty of people cycletour with tent, sleeping bag, and cooking gear that weighs far more than a camera and 3 lenses. They don't have to avoid mountains; they just use lower gears.

 

PJW

[joop]

Guys, don't worry about the weigth! for me it's fine.

I did this couple of times before, but always completely packed with

tent-sleeping bag etc. everything on my touring bike.

see :

http://www.nat.vu.nl/~mes/alp.html

http://www.nat.vu.nl/~mes/alp2.html

This time with a new bike that weigths only 8.5 kg vs. 16 kg for the previous one, no luggage at all, except for just some food and a camera. And, yes going down sometimes at 75 km/h...

[patricks]

take body and 35, perhaps the 90 and then buy a decent size camel pack hydration pack. the water while come in extremly handy since the heat wave will stay in Europe, from what I've hear and the pocket should be big enogh to hold your gear.