TLR or SLR?

[antonio_carusone]

Ok so Im getting a MF cam soon. I have done a lot of research and I pretty much

know which cameras Im gonna get. I just have to figure out which system. Im a

beginner when it comes to MF. Ive been shooting 35mm for a few years now. So

should I get a very cheap TLR on ebay for around $100 or should a spend a bit more

and get a used SLR system?

 

The cameras Im looking at are a Minolta Autocord and a Mamiya RB67.

[matt_m__toronto_]

depends what you shoot...for portraits i'd say the tlr way is nice, but for architectural/macro/precision studio work, i'd say slr.

[paulrumohr]

I learned a lot about medium format from my Yashicamat 124G. If you're a beginner, and

don't want to spend $$$$ for a complete MF kit, I think the TLR is a great way to take the

plunge!

[miles_feigenbaum___dallas_]

http://www.keh.com/shop/class.cfm?bid=RB&sid=newused&crid=5544297

[miles_feigenbaum___dallas_]

http://www.macuserforums.com/

[douglas_green1]

The short answer is, it depends on what you're predominantly going to use it for. I own an RB67, as well as a Rolleiflex 2.8D and Yashica Mat-124. The RB67 is just about NEVER used without a tripod. It's a big heavy slow beast of a camera - but a superb studio instrument. For handheld street use and portability, So long as the normal lens is sufficient, a good TLR (such as the ones I own OR an Autocord)cannot be beat. The way I look at it, you should get the TLR first. They are so inexpensive for a good one like an Autocord or a Yashica Mat or Mat-124, that it's not even a significant expense. If you find that it is limiting, you can then get an SLR that is strong in specifically the areas your TLR is limited, and you can either sell the TLR for just about what you paid for it, or you can still keep it to complement the SLR for areas that IT is limited, such as unobtrusive street shooting. No 6x6 or 6x7 SLR could ever be considered as an unobtrusive hand held camera for fast shooting, even a Hasselblad, which comes the closest. But these are the areas that TLRs excel in.

[doug_bennett]

The real question, I think, is will you be limited by the one fixed lens of a TLR? If not, then a TLR is certainly an affordable way into medium format, and is a really fun camera to use. As already noted, Yashica Mats and Minolta Autocords are very inexpensive, and my $100.00 Autocord is a fantastic camera.

 

Another choice, although I've not tried them, would be the Mamiya TLRs, which can change lenses.

[mskovacs]

Well after borrowing a Koni-Omega 67 and a Rolleiflex TLR, I've recently gone the TLR route myself with a Rolleiflex. I wanted a quiet, vibration free platform so the SLR cameras were out of the picture. (not to mention a whole lot more money)

 

I intend to do portrait work and outdoor landscapes. If you can live with the normal lens and about 3' minimum focusing, they are great cameras. I'm a big fan of the square 6x6 negative.

 

Unless I'm out of touch, I think you'll spend more than "a bit more" for a basic RB67 outfit. Don't forget to budget for a light meter if you don't have one.

[enrico__]

get a rolleiflex or a mamiya tlr (c33 or c330 if possible).

 

if you are wanting to go for the rb eventually then best get the mamiya tlr.

 

save yourself the money and dont go directly to an rb. spend the extra cash on a decent brand new light meter - one that might set you back for a bit but will eventually be your 'best friend' if you get to know it inside out - look after it and it will last you 'ages'!

 

then later on if you are happy with the mamiya then update to the rb.

[antonio_carusone]

Thansk fellas you all have great advice. Heres the thing. Im more of a street shooter. I

carry my 35mm iwth me in my bagt and when I see a good shot I take it. I know it

wont be that easy with a MF. The one thing I dont like about the TRLs is that there are

no built in light meters, the ones that so cant be reliable. So that means I would have

to carry a light meter and that just goes again the whole purpose of street shooting.

With a light meter its more of a setup up shot which I dont want. So heres what im

thinking. If Im gonn have to do the SETUP thing with the MF then I might as well get a

SLR system. That way I can use a tripod and setup the shot with a light meter. Im

gonna be take some shots of my friends band for there promo and I would like to use

a MF.

 

What is the cheapest SLR system I can get used?

[douglas_green1]

Actually, you're wrong. a fixed lens TLR is VERY reasonable to carry around and take grab shots. Certainly a MF SLR can't do that, nor can the Mamiya interchangeable lens TLRs. The fixed lens 6x6 TLRs are as small and light as a typical 35mm SLR. and you'll find that the waist level viewing won't attract the attention of your subject matter. A Yashica Mat or a Minolta Autocord or a Rollei 3.5C would easily fit that bill for under $200.

 

Let me be crystal clear about this: Any of the TLRs I mentioned are between 1/3 and 1/2 the size and weight of an RB67 with magazine and lens. We're talking ~3 lbs vs. ~7-8 pounds. The Mamiya interchangeable lens TLRs come in at a bit over 5 lbs.

[antonio_carusone]

Well I know that tehy are small and light and are easy to carry around but im still

gonna have to use a ligth meter correct. So just walking down the street and shooting

on the fly is out of the question. But I think im gonna go with the Autocord.

 

CAn one recommend a decent light meter that wont cost a fortune?

[larry_lambert1]

"spend the extra cash on a decent brand new light meter - one that might set you back for a bit but will eventually be your 'best friend' if you get to know it inside out"-Enrico Scotece

Absolutely rock solid advice, take that to the bank. One that allows both incident and optically found reflective. I LOVE Gossen meters, trusting my Gossen has never once failed me, but the starlight model is a chunk o' change. The Sekonic L-358, with the added optical spot attachment comes to mind as a reasonably priced setup, pretty small too. If you're standing in the same light as your target, incident mode is sure thing. I think you could conceal a Heckler and Koch carbine easier than a RB. BTW, my C-220 with 80 2.8 S weighs in at just over three pounds. With the 55, only slightly heavier. My 1v with a 28-135 weighs noticeably more.

[douglas_green1]

Actually, with wide lattitude B&W negative film, it's very reasonable to just take an incident reading, or even use Sunny-16 rule, and just keep the camera set at those settings and go. There were great photos LONG before there were light meters.

[mskovacs]

By your criteria, the Leica M3 is a poor street shooting camera. A hand held incident meter is more useful than you give credit for. As Douglas says, you don't need to get beside your subject to get an incident reading. Quite often I've pointed an incident meter over my shoulder when in doubt.

 

If you want to handhold a MF camera and you must have a TTL meter, then maybe you should look at a rangefinder like the Mamiya 6 or 7? I'm more of a tripod guy but with a solid strap, TLRs handhold very well. When you consider the lack of mirror slap and a very quiet leaf shuter, you may find yourself in street shooting heaven.

[the tightwad]

Antonio, it sound like you have already made your mind up for a SLR

which is a shame. One very important point that I think you've missed

is the ......size of the negative you want to shoot.

MF is several sizes of negative on 120/220 film unlike 35mm. Consider

if you want to shoot 6x6,6x7,6x9,6x4.5 or what? All have framing considerations and will yield different composition needs. Just buying

the equipment based on brand or SLR/TLR would be a mistake.

 

The need for equipment in street shooting in MF is more compsition and

luck than equipment. Douglas Green has offered some very good advice here so I'd sugggest that you determine what size of negative you want

first based on your ablility to compose the pictures you want to take.

In MF the TLR is tough to beat for street grab shots. Some of the

most famous street shots were taken with a single lens TLR so they

give no ground the an SLR and a fancy lens setup.

[antonio_carusone]

Walter, I havent decided on the SLR, Im leaning towards the TLR. Brand means

nothing to me, I dont need a flashy cameras I just want something that works. I also

know what size I want, 6x6. I think the Autocord shoots 6x6.

 

 

Would it be possible to buy a new TTL prism finder and mount it on an old TLR?

 

All that light meter talk confused me, I dont know what incedent is but ill learn one

day.

[the tightwad]

Antonio, Yes, I'd agree that the TLR is a very good place to start (

and stay as I have for my needs) The 6x6 square format while different

from a 35mm will help you learn good composition and may even become

a favorite as it did for me. I personally like the simplicity of the

TLR over a SLR for MF as it is so very low profile in use which is a plus for street use. As to which TLR to buy? Buy a Rollie if you wish

to add a prism (it won't be TTL but it will allow viewing through the

"viewing" lens). The Rollie is a long time pro level TLR with a distinctive history in steeet work. Good ones cost more but are worth

it. Or,if you wish, look for a Yashica 124 , Minolta Autocord or for

a TLR with interchangable finders and lens the Mamiya C330 / C220 series. (Mamiya's are bit heavy for street work long term)

 

If it's any help I use a trusted Yashica 124 for light work or street

work finding it to be an excellent tool for that work. (I suspect that

the Rollie is as good or better I've just never needed one) My Mamiya

C330s is used for all other MF work that I do finding it to be excellent in all respects along with being super reliable.

 

A light meter is simple once you get used to it. However, for all but

very precise work I use zone settings that follow the "Sunny 16 "rule

to simplify exposures. There is no sense at all to making photography

to much "work" and not enough "fun" to get all wrapped up in tech stuff.

 

So for the fun of it buy a Rollie, Yashica or Autocord and go take

some MF pic's. You'll may be frustrated at first but in the end you'll

have a ball. Enjoy!!

[antonio_carusone]

Thansk Walt. Can you explain to me the Sunny-16 idea?

 

Thanks.

[jonathan brewer]

You're outside, you forgot your meter, no clouds/very few clouds/clear day, even better you're shooting negative film, you can shoot F16 @ 1/250 sec which will put your negative in the ballpark for the lab to correct(if any is needed) the exposure to produce a pretty good print.

 

A stop off either way is almost nothing with negative film which isn't to say you should start out shooting that way, but then again you can get pretty good at guestimating exposures outside after a while.

 

One point of clarification though, the 'sunny 16' rule is going to work for photographing an object on the ground which is illuminated by the sun, it ins't going to work if you point your camera at the sky which can put you way off which is why they have graduated neutral density filters.

[matt_m__toronto_]

i'd recommend the gossen digisix light meter. very accurate and the smallest most accurate meter i've ever used.

 

m

[audidudi]

Although I don't do much street photography, when I do, I use my Minolta Autocord LMX and attach it to a modified Minolta Power Grip One with a Minolta 320PX flash unit. It's actually quite comfortable to carry, is quick to focus and shoot, and has a built-in meter.

 

Unfortunately, the meter is only accurate during the middle of the day so I often carry a handheld meter with me and rely upon that instead. If this is a problem for you, though, you can always save a few bucks and buy an unmetered Autocord, then use your savings to buy a Cosina "button" meter and mount it in the cold shoe ... a friend uses one of these with his Leica M3 and swears by it.

[alan___2]

"Well I know that tehy are small and light and are easy to carry around but im still gonna have to use a ligth meter correct. So just walking down the street and shooting on the fly is out of the question." As someone has said, people did street photography long before SLRs and built in light meters. You don't have to meter before each shot: as you walk around, you continually check the meter and vary the camera setting to suit the lighting at the time, that way you are always ready to shoot quickly. If you are in the sun, the exposure will always be the same, and you quickly get used to the different levels of shade that exist. It is just a matter of practice. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[chris_waller]

I have an RB67 and a C3 TLR. I like them both for different applications. Yes, the RB needs a tripod, but then I nearly always use the C3 on a tripod. On price, the C330 would be preferable.

[antonio_carusone]

Anyone know where I can buy a Minolta Autocord besides Ebay?