using Canon 500mm/f4 IS lens + D10 for birdphotograpy

[bas_van_den_boogaard]

Hi all,

 

Recently, I became the happy owner of a canon 500mm/f4 IS lens plus a

D10 digital body. I shoot primarily birdpics. The equipment will be

picked up in three weeks, so I'll have a bit of a wait before I can

excually use it.

 

Anyway, my question is quite simple: knowing that the AF on the 10D

is not of a very high quality (speed and accuracy compared to EOS 3

and EOS 1 serie), I wonder if there's people with experience on how

easy it is to overrule the AF. Supposedly, you can instantly take

over AF focussing by simpely turning the focus-ring on the lens. But

is that really without first having to push a button (either on the

body or on the lens)?

 

I would love if I can have my main focussing done by the (central) AF

sensor, however, there's numerous situations where manual adjustments

will be required. And that adjustment has to be done instantly,

preferably......

 

Anyone experienced with this, specifically 10D plus a canon AF/IS

tele?

 

Thanks for the response,

Bas vd Boogaard

[mark_chappell]

Congratulations -- you're going to have a lot of fun with your new toys (or tools if

you prefer). I have used the 10D + 500 f4 IS combination extensively for a couple of

months; this photo (a sedge wren) was taken with the 1.4X converter on a windy day

where the autofocus capability came in VERY handy as the bird waved around on top

of a reed. Here are some more results (sorry for the long URL; check the captions for

the equipment used):

 

http://biology.ucr.edu/people/faculty/MACphotos/MACphotosCanada.html

 

On one point I beg to differ with you: I have found the AF on the 10D to be quite

good. My comparison point is an EOS 1V. The latter has more focus points, but the

10D seems to respond very quickly and accurately in all reasonable bird photography

combinations I've encountered. Notably, the 9 AF points on the 10D are a lot easier

to select among than the 40 or so on the 1v. For a bird photographer there is one

notable difference between the 10D and the 1v: with the 2X converter, the 10D +

500 f4 won't autofocus with the 10D like it does with the 1v. Both work well with the

1.4X.

 

Manual focus does work (if your eyes are up to it -- increasingly, mine are not). If

you want to use autofocus with manual override, make sure you set the AF mode into

'one-shot'. If it's in 'servo' mode it will continually refine what it thinks the focus

should be, so if you manually override by turning the focus ring on the lens, it will

instantly refocus. You can manually focus in 'servo' mode by pressing the focus

override buttons on the lens, but this is very clumsy.

 

Make sure you have a good, solid tipod, even with IS. One quirk (for me) is that the

10D seems too small to 'fit' a big lens well -- I miss the extra grip size of the 1v and

am getting the auxillary battery pack to make up for it. And.... keep a blower brush

handy to take care of dust on the sensor.<div></div>

[sergey_oboguev]

I have used 600/4 with 10D and though AF may be not quite up to 1V standards, it is acceptable at least in daylight for static or slowly moving subjects (such as for example for tracking killdeer running along the shore).

 

For flight shots I prefer to hold onto 1V though...

 

I guess I do quite get your question.

 

Yes, you can always use FTM on 500/4 and you can put it in MF mode as well, if desired, just by flipping the switch on the lens.

 

Is that what you are asking about?

 

* * *

 

By the way, if I were you, I'd also definitely get Wimnerley head and perhaps also levelling base for it. You do not want to mess with 500/4 on the ballhead.

[mark_chappell]

I strongly agree with Sergey. This lens is far too heavy to use easily on any ballhead

I've tried. MUCH better with a Wimberly or other 'gimbal' head. If you already have a

ballhead with Arca-Swiss clamp, the Wimberly sidekick works just fine with the 500

IS.

 

Incidentally, I think I was in error -- the 10D has 7 autofocus points, not 9 (I wish it

DID have 9, or even 11, with the extra 4 in the upper right, lower right, lower left, and

upper left positions).

[johnlund]

1. With FTM lenses you can touch-up the focus after AF finds a target or gives up without flipping any switches. It's usually fast, but not instant. This is more noticable with a relatively slow focussing lens like a 100mm macro than a telephoto. (However, you can turn the ring anytime.)

 

2. You can split the AF motor and shutter release across two buttons (via a custom function). It takes practice and a FTM lens, but I think this is what you want.

 

3. Current Canon super-telephotos like this one have "AF stop" buttons near the focus ring. See the 10D custom functions for options.

 

4. As mentioned in an earlier response, you can flip a lens switch for all manual focus if you like.

 

Also, read the sections in the 10D manual about AF point registration and the AF assist button to flip between center-point AF and full AF.

[bas_van_den_boogaard]

Hi there,

 

Thanks for the reponse so far. It seems that from what I've read so far is that the AF is not that bad, luckily. I do hope though, that the central AF will do it's job with flying birds....But that primarily means keeping up with the subject accurately. By the way: would it be wise to just use the central AF point for this sort of work ("static" and moving)? I've read some reports that using all AF points at once, might give more "off-focus" pictures (hence the much debated 10D's af problems)

 

Fortunatly, I do have a heavy Gitzo tripod, and a fluid videohead (G2380) as well. I noticed that photographers in the states are wild of the Whimberely (i don't debate it isn't good), but I haven't seen much reports on the Gitzo videoheads (they're NOT ballheads) so far: they're rock solid, very smooth panning and real easy to operate, plus that they're bulky enough to carry heavy lenses. Up till now, I used it with a 500mm/f4 Nikon lens, it just works fantastic. Enough on that matter though.....

 

For Sergey: have you tried the 10D on flightshots? It doesn't sound as if the results were good enough for you. Or is it that the AF is just not fast enough for that work (plus only 3fps)

 

Cheers,

Bas van den Boogaard

[bas_van_den_boogaard]

Question for John Lund:

 

I have read the user-manual (from the internet) already, and you're right, there's quite some options on how to operate this "machinery". But what do you exactly mean by "splitting the AF motor from the shutter release"? To trigger AF, I would still have to half-press the shutter release, right?

 

Thanks for the reply,

Bas vd Boogaard

[mark_chappell]

re: shutter button and AF: Nah, you don't have to trigger AF with the shutter button.

There's at least one other button on the back that initiates AF.

[johnlund]

See custom function 4 on the 10D for shutter button and AE lock ("*") button options. Happy bird hunting!

[sergey_oboguev]

> have you tried the 10D on flightshots

 

I was not tempted too much to try it so I cannot provide any solid opinion on 10D AF performance for flight shots. The chief factor why 1V wins hands down in terms of technical keepers for flight shots is frame rate. 3 fps is just not enough here, so evoking shadow of Napoleon, that was enough of the reason not to look any further.

 

This is not to say flight shots with 10D are impossible. When I had D60 I got some out of curiosity even with 100-400 (which is not exactly known for fastest focusing) on shoulder stock. But with 1VHS in the bag I just do not see the point of messing with 10D for this kind of shots.

 

> would it be wise to just use the central AF point

 

It's all up to you. Personally I almost always use only central focusing point (and always - only single AF point) and do not like cameras to decide what they should focus on.

 

> fluid videohead (G2380)

 

I do not know about G2380. Good thing about Wimberley is not only easy and effortlessless panning, but you can also adjust lens so that it hangs by itself at almost any angle. With IS engaged, you can shoot without locking the head, just with camera naturally hanging on its own weight and dampening shutter vibration by the sheer weight of lens and camera combined.

 

Ease of such balance adjustment assumes use of Arca clamp.

 

I do not know if G2380 would be the same.

 

Also very important, Wimberley plates have safety screws on both sides (at least as an available option), at the front and in the back so you can easily pull lens back and forth to balance the setup -- something you are likely to find yourself doing quite often -- without worrying it to slide out of the clamp.

[bas_van_den_boogaard]

Hi Sergey,

 

Get your point on the 1v camera, fps are surely important when it comes to critical actionshots. Before, I had a manual 500mm/f4, and even with that camera I managed to get quite a few good (tac sharp)flightshots, and that's in hand, not from a tripod! Practice does a lot! However, I am looking forward to AF " assistance", even from the 10D, so I guess at least for awhile the AF on the 10D will do. In a few years or so, an upgrade to the upcoming digital EOS 3 will be expected.....

 

I do know about the balancing possibilities on the Whimberly, and that's a great feature. The G2380 videohead of Gitzo does not have that. The plates that come with it do have safety points, so your lens+camera never slides out (to release, you have to push in a small plastic slide). On the G2380 videohead, the setup will be not in balance, so there is some tighting to do on a knob.....Anyway, it works suburb for me.

 

Good to hear that the central focus point is your ball game as well. It's still the most accurate AF point, right?

 

cheers,

[sergey_oboguev]

P.S.

 

Another limitation of 10D vs. 1V you might perhaps notice sometimes is due to the shutter delay. The difference I believe is on the order of 0.15 or 0.2 sec; it mostly matters in cases when you have camera prefocused on the subject (usually with shutter half-depressed, i.e. IS running and exposure set, or at least in Manual mode to avoid metering overhead) waiting for the animal to perform some action.

 

Anyway, if you intend to go digital, 10D will probably bridge you reasonably towards EOS 3 based digital body or 1D replacement expected later this year.

 

Happy shooting.

[jay_steller]

Just to clarify the shutter lag - the 1V/1D is approximately 50ms while the 10D is approximately 120ms. The difference is significant when shooting action but overcomeable by anticipating slightly more with the 10D.

 

As for tweaking the focus manually, you must be in One Shot mode for this to work. In Servo mode, the lens is constantly focusing so as soon as you tweek the focus, the lens will tweek it back. in One Shot mode you can let the AF find focus and then tweek it while your finger remains partially depressed on the shutter. This doesn't work well for action but for stationary subject it works exceptionally well

[vesa_perala]

I use CF4-1 to separate AF and exposure. It will take a

while before it gets your second nature to use it but in my

opinion it is worth it as a general setting.

 

So, Pressing shutter halfway will lock exposure (I use partial

metering mode). Also IS gets activated.

Pressing the '*'-button with thumb activates AF (and IS) for as long as I keep it pressed.

 

In some cases leaving the AF on the shutter button makes sense. Photographing flying birds is one usage for that but not always

though.

 

Vesa