RB67 or M645?

[john_boley]

Hi!

My wife is just getting started in medium format portraiture and

wedding photography. She's got a great eye for composition and

expression and stays busy with her Canon eos Elan 7 35mm. I recently

bought her an old Yashica C TLR and we've both been stunned by the

quality of this $49.00 MF ebay find, especially the B & W which I

develop and print at home. We're now shopping for a professional

grade MF SLR that won't break the bank (3 kids, ages 14, 4 and 2)

Looking at the Mamiya website and shopping around on ebay, I thought

perhaps an M645 or Rb67 would be in order. What are your

recommendations? Thanks! - JB

[jim_seaman]

John,

 

I have an RB67 Pro s that I bought used for about $650 (including: 127mm c lens, 120 back, shade, lens cap, new light seals throughout and shipping.). It looks almost brand new. They are bargains right now since a lot of the pro's are going digital.

 

You need to decide how and what you are going to shoot. If its going to be on a tripod the rb works well. I'll even carry mine around but I'd rather not. The 645 will be easier to use like a bigger 35mm camera than the rb would. You should go down to the local camera store and pick up each of them - you'll see what I mean.

 

Another thing to think about is: does your enlarger have 6x7 capability? This will add to the bill if you go with the rb. Not that I'm knocking the rb! I love it for studio work and tripod work (and lets face it, if you're going to the trouble of medium format for better quality negatives, you'll probably want to shoot on a tripod a lot of the time). I haven't tried it at macro stuff yet but with the built in bellows it should be great.

 

I went with the rb because I found that since most of my subjects/prints were rectangular on my existing c330 (6x6) I really already had a 645... I've not looked back! The rb's are well built and are a nice handling camera. I use a koni-omega(6x7) for field work. It, with 2 lenses, is lighter than the rb with one. The rb shines on a tripod but I've used it with a left hand grip - which I recommend when its not on the tripod. It has a rotating back so you don't have to tilt the camera on its side when you are composing for vertical shots.

 

So, if you plan to lug it around, make sure you try carrying the rb around a camera shop for 10 minutes before making the decision. I don't own an m645 so someone else will have to comment on its virtues.

 

Good luck,

 

Jim Seaman

[richard_milner2]

The RB67 is hellish big and heavy to hand-hold for weddings, though it is an excellent studio camera.

 

There was a thread a couple of days ago discussing this, you might find it helpful to refer to that.

 

If you are looking at the M645 you should also consider the Bronica ETRSI which has flash sync up to 1/500s which is very useful for fill-flash. Prices are comparable with the Mamiya cameras (in the UK, at least).

[cxc]

What shortcomings of the Yashica are you trying to address? If you are satisfied with 6x6 and with a TLR, and with used, then consider a Mamiya TLR as well. It's relatively cheap, with interchangeable, high-quality lenses.

 

Unless she is six feet tall and lifts weights, your wife may find the RB67 a bit much for handholding. Go to the store and heft a new one before buying sight unseen. If she needs handholding.

 

Have fun,

 

CXC

[christopher perez]

I like 6x7 for it's dramatic improvement in image quality over 35mm. If you can handle the weight, then a RZ might be just the ticket. Used prices are quite good these days on mint gear (ie: it might not come close to breaking the bank).

<p>

If you like the square format of the Yashica, then I'd suggest looking at use Mamiya C-series cameras or a nice used late model Rolleiflex. If you really like the idea of square format AND SLR, then take a look at used Hasselblad gear. Prices seem to be coming down for them too (though these are still capable of breaking the bank).

<p>

Don't forget to use a tripod where you can. I think you'd be quite happy with any of the cameras that have been suggested.

[dan_long]

John:

I have burned film for 30 years, and gotten in and out of medium format more frequently than some people change underwear. Have used the Yashica(and its variants)you mentioned, Mamiya and Rollei twinlens cameras, Early Bronicas, one Hasselblad, some strange russian stuff, one Fuji 645, Pentax 645 and 67, and have (and have had several) RB67's and Kowas. All except the Russion items were great.

 

My favorites are the RB 67's and Kowas. The Kowas have stunning optics for the price at which they are available. The RB 67's likewise, as well as larger negative size, rotating back, bellows for close-up, and removable backs.

 

I recommend either a used RB with newer lenses (more fully coated) or a Kowa if you prefer SLR's. The Mamiya twins are also workhorses that are a tremendous value for something that has interchangeable lenses. Like the Yashica variants, you can spend varying amounts depending on vintage. For rangefinder folks, the simplest Fuji 645 produces tack sharp negs and transparencies, and is quick to handle.

 

The RB is sturdy and reliable, but large and heavy as mentioned. I rarely use it other than tripod mounted, and I am 6'4" and lift weights. The way the camera operates causes one to take more time than something that points and shoots more quickly, so it is suited for tripod use and more contemplative picture taking.

 

JMHO,

Dan

[bill crookston]

I checked out both - and went the Mamiya 645 route. I was stunned when I had some of my negatives enlarged to 30" x 40" then canvas bonded.

They are so sharp.

I take all pictures (where possible) on a tripod with the mirror up and at 3 stops down - although I find it is very easy to hand hold too.

The Mamiya 35mm wide lens is wider than you can get with the Bronica and although you do get a fast flash sync with the Bronica you can still get lenses with in built shutters for the Mamiya which give you the same.

[jonathan brewer]

Photography is for most of us a lifelong love, lifelong pursuit that will involve you in more than one camera, one choice, and whatever you choose, you'll have that camera and the TLR.

 

Why not incorporate what you want into a long range plan that involves a more portable 645 which gives up a small % of negative area to a 6x7 that you could also consider as a compliment to the 645, of course kids come first, but since you have 4, you've got a long range semi-excuse for an extra camera.

 

Like new/mint/Demo gear will provide you with near new gear at a discounted price, wait for the right deal, the more patient you are the better deal you'll find.

 

If you're happy with your Yashica TLR, then use it, there are art exhibits showing the likes of SX-70 polaroids, a good shot is a good shot, whether from a Yashica TLR or from anything else.

[jonathan brewer]

BTW the RB Pro-SD is a completely different camera with a Multi-angle grip than without one, still hefty, but much more manageable, and easy to fire while you hold the camera with two hands, as you fire the shutter with left index finger(the multi-ange grip has a dedicated trigger), and also using the Prism II finder which is also a must for handheld, this combo is easy to hold below eyelevel and you can look down while you cradle the camera with two hands.

 

Just handling a RB/RB Pro-SD body/back/waitlevel finder/lens without all the above is going to feel awkward/the camera will seem even heavier because of the awkwardness.

 

I never take my grips off my RB's(the multi-angle grip has a tripod hole on its base), on the tripod the grip and Prism II make the camera a pleasure to use otherwise you're trying to find some spot on the body itself(which there isn't) to place your hands to manuever the camera as you frame and fire.

 

A few folks are convinced that a RZ/RZII is somewhat lighter than an RB(not by much since the RB is 5.9 pounds, the RZII 5.4), and easier to use than an RB, point is the RZ without a grip and the Prism II finder IS just as awkward as the RB sans the same upgrades.

 

That is why I've gone with the RB Pro-SD, you can get the RB body with a grip and the Prism II finder for about the same price or maybe less (new or used) than the RZ/RZII with nothing/just the body.

 

When you go into the dealer, have them put a grip and a Prism II on the camera, if you don't like this set-up then you truly are looking at the wrong camera for when you want to handhold for a shot.

[john_boley]

Thanks for all of the valuable input! I think I'll hunt up a 645 AND a Rb67. Then all of the bases will be covered. I thuink some of you got the mistaken idea thatI'm dis-satisfied with the Yashica C TLR. I'm not at all unhappy with it, in fact, I shot some kids-in-the-wading-pool shots with it yesterday. The only problem I have with it for location shooting is that it's 120 Only, which means 12 shots, then a laborious film re-load. If it's tripod-mounted (which it usually is) it has to be removed from the tripod in order to re-load. You can see that this would be a real problem for the sometimes spontaneous shots that are required at a wedding. Also, it must be hand-held metered, which I really don't mind, since it seems to get me more accurate exposure control. Even so, a faster handling, easy re-loading SLR with built-in metering would surely make location shooting easier.

[douglas_green1]

Ditto what Jonathan said about the Grips. To me, I ONLY use the RB67 AND the RZ67 either with an L-Grip, or a Monopod, or a Tripod. IMHO, either an L-Grip or a Monopod is an indispensible accessory for field use with these cameras.

[ctotten]

if money is a factor, go with the M645. it is probably the best value around. the rb/6x7 is better but you should also check out the prices for accessories. everything for the rb and rz's cost more than for the M645. i started off with TLR's and moved up to an M645 and find that i use it a lot more. i bought an ae prism and power winder to go with it and it is almost as easy to use as my Elan 7. i recommend keh.com. you can get a M645 body with insert for around $115, 80mm lens for around $110 and a prism finder anywhere from $35 to $200. i have several cameras and have shopped around a lot and find used M645's right now to be the best buy around given the quality and great amount of reasonably priced (comparatively speaking) accessories available. i have a koni omega 6x7 which i love but it simply isn't an option for most of the shots that i take (e.g. kids).