richard_arthur Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I just got a new Canon 10D a few days ago and took it out this morning to try it out. I uploaded a couple of sample photos at: <a href="http://www.aeiou12345.com/10dcolors.html">http://www.aeiou12345 .com/10dcolors.html</a> if you could please take a look. (There is also one attached here.) I am very disappointed with the colors in the photos. <br><br> I was shooting in fully automatic mode. I have not changed any white balance settings or anything. It's a pretty colorful day here in Austin today, and the colors are MUCH more vibrant than they appear in the photos. For example, in the first photo, the tree in the foreground just to the right of center actually had an almost neon green color, yet it appears very dull. <br><br> I have until tomorrow to exchange this camera for another one if I need to. I need your expert opinions please. Should the colors appear this bad when shooting in fully automatic mode? <br><br> By the way, I did not do anything to these photos except resize them to 800x533. <br><br> THANK YOU!<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erb_duchenne Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 The pic looks fine to me. Your link doesn't work for me though. You can try to improve your image with photoshop or some other photo editor. Alternatively you can try setting the parameters on your camera (color saturation, sharpness etc.) to your liking. I don't think you have to return your camera. Hope this helps. Happy shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgo Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Paint Shop Pro One Step Photo Fix did this in less than 2 seconds ...<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgo Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 And this ...<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgo Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 And lastly ...<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_arthur Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 C.G., I am proficient in Photoshop and can easily increase the saturation. However, these colors simply seem way too dull. I should not have to increase the saturation of every single photo by 20-30%! I am starting to think there is a problem with the white balance on this camera. The manual says that to change the white balance you just press the "AF-WB" button and then turn the dial on the back to select the icon you want. But when I turn the dial, nothing happens; it just stays set to "AWB". I have tried changing the white balance in all the manual modes, but nothing happens. Any 10D owners out there? I am a little stressed because if I return it, I have to ship it back by tomorrow. And this is my first SLR so I'm not sure whether I'm just doing something wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_chang1 Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Richard, the colours you got are what you'd expect shooting in bright sunlight. Put a polarizer on the lens. Unless you already are using a C-Pol and using it correctly, then the colors don't look like Canon CMOS. Congrats of getting a 10D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard harris Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 There is nothing wrong with your camera, however strong colours need a little work to be achieved. The easiest way to get better colours is to change the saturation and contrast parameters on the camera's menu. However the main problem with the first image you have linked to is the hard contrasty lighting. These conditions are not condusive to strong colours since the contrast means they are overexposed (which is why the sky is washed out). The second and third images look fine, although they can easily be improved with an image editor. The more advanced way to improve your colours would be to leave the camera parameters alone and shoot RAW. You can then adjust colour temparature, saturation and contrast during the RAW conversion. With this method you can get images as saturated as Velvia if you wish to, with a lot more control and latitude than if you were shooting slides. The key is to expose for the highlights and spend some time in post processing. Shooting in softer light or around sunset/sunrise is also a good idea.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_arthur Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 By the way, your fix of Photo 23 is nice, but unfortunately it doesn't look anything like the natural colors. Everything is way more green and much less yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard harris Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 <i>The manual says that to change the white balance you just press the "AF-WB" button and then turn the dial on the back to select the icon you want. But when I turn the dial, nothing happens; it just stays set to "AWB". I have tried changing the white balance in all the manual modes, but nothing happens.</i> <p> Make sure the switch on your Command Dial is set to "on". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_arthur Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 Well, if it takes a lot of image manipulation to get good colors out of a digital SLR, I have no problem with that. I'm used to a Canon point and shoot where the colors come out well straight out of the camera, but I can adjust. BUT, please see my comment above about not being able to set the white balance in manual mode. Also, like I said there's no way for you guys to know, but these really just don't look anything like the natutal colors, including the fixed photos by C.G. above. Thanks for your responses. Let's have some from 10D owners about setting the white balance, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_arthur Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 Ok, that's what it was - I did not have the command dial switch set to ON. As you all can tell, I am a total newbie with this camera. At this point I guess I am ready to relax and start the learning process instead of worrying about the colors unless I hear something to the contrary. Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppyDigs Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 "I'm used to a Canon point and shoot where the colors come out well straight out of the camera, but I can adjust." And adjust you should. 10D files are basically digital negatives. To look their best, you must at least adjust color and level. With film, most folks let the lab tweak their images. With digital, you do the tweaking. If you don't want to mess with PS or RAW, max out the onboard sharpness, contrast and saturation settings and your images will come close to an over processed point 'n shoot digicam look. Sometimes the light’s all shining on me. Other times I can barely see. - Robert Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirtos_anastasiades Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 It is very ironical to be advised by the experts to spend hours ¡§fixing¡¨ each individual photo (using PS or whatever) having spent so much money to purchase the 10D when any point-and-shoot cameras produced excellent, colourful and pleasant to eyes results without the need of after-processing. Well, I guess this is why those P&S cameras are so cheap, the take from us the pleasure of becoming also Photoshop experts �º Am starting to believe that the magic of DSLRs is actually the process of fixing first and wondering after what went wrong ¡K probably this experimentation (the try-again process) makes us became better photographers! Pity but this is so masochistic. Richard, see also my thread http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0069g7 having experienced exactly the same problems. My advice, unless you want to process individually 50% of the photographs you will take, return it back and exchange it for a simple CANON IXUS P&S camera. Use the money difference and go for holidays, there you will be able to forget this unpleasant experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_larson1 Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Don't forget about sharpening. Do a search on "unsharp mask". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_macman Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 And as everyone already knows, specifying the lens used is totally useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denisbergeron Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I find your pictures beautiful, specificly the one with the tree !<p> Of course if you use polariser to reduce the over-exposed sky, you should find better couleur rendition since all digital camera (p&S included) have less dynamic range and F-Stop freedom, you should make a attention to the <a href="http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understanding-histograms.shtml">histogram.</a> whom is the Light Meter of the 21st Century.<p> Digital work more like slide photography!<p> Of course, some work in PS or in Gimp can improuve your picture !<p> this exemple is automatic color increase in The Gimp<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photobyalan.com Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Richard, Frankly, I'm a little surprised that no one else has asked this, but: Is your monitor properly calibrated? Does the color space on your monitor match the color space you're using on the camera and in your photo editing software? For the record, I have taken about 5000 shots with my 10D and have no complaints about color fidelity or saturation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_arthur Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 I think what it all boils down to is that my expectations were wrong. I was expecting to see something more like the images that come straight out of my Canon Powershot point-and-shoot, but I now understand that by default the D10 does not process the images and boost the saturation and contrast, etc. the way that camera does. The upshot of all this for me is that I have more to learn than I thought. I've been doing a lot of reading about exposure, metering modes, etc., but now I've gotta actually do it! Richard: Thanks for your processing tips and especially for telling me how to turn the command switch on. :-) Mirtos: Funny response. :-) Yes it looks like you recently asked pretty much the same thing. I was in such a hurry to figure out whether my camera was broken that I didn't have a chance to look at what had been asked before. Thanks, and I guess I'm masochistic, but I am looking forward to working more in Photoshop. Macman: I've heard how important the lens is, but I thought it had more to do with sharpness than anything else. If I'd known it was relevant to the colors, I would have specified it. BTW, it's an EF 28-105mm f/4-5.6 USM that I borrowed from a friend. But I have a top quality Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L USM that should be arriving some time this week! I've seen photos taken with this lens, and I'm excited about it. Greg and Denis: Thanks for the tip on the polarizer and paying attention to the histogram. The thread that Mirtos mentioned talks about those things too. Alan: I haven't used a hardware calibration tool, but I think it's calibrated pretty well. I think the default color space for the 10D is sRGB, which is also what I'm using in PS (will probably change to Adobe RGB at some point). Thanks again to everyone for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppyDigs Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 "It is very ironical to be advised by the experts to spend hours ¡§fixing¡¨ each individual photo (using PS or whatever) having spent so much money to purchase the 10D when any point-and-shoot cameras produced excellent, colourful and pleasant to eyes results without the need of after-processing." Obviously you haven't had the pleasure of doing your own darkroom work! Negative film--black or white--requires more tweaking during enlargement, printing and development than digital. The reason point 'n shoot images look decent is because you pay the lab to take care of all the adjustments for you. I'm sure you've had pictures printed at a crappy lab where the adjustments were poorly performed by an inexperienced or uncaring tech. Like I said above, with digital you do the tweaking. I enjoy the control but it's not for everyone. Incidentally, a typical 10D image requires only a few minutes of PS tweaks. But, of course, the amount of time depends on your PS skill... Sometimes the light’s all shining on me. Other times I can barely see. - Robert Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dloose Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Colors look about right to me. I live here in Austin too, if you want to get together sometime we can go shoot side by side and compare. Doubt we'd find any problems, but maybe find some cool places to shoot. Now better hurry, not much time for focus testing... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_macman Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 >>>>>>>> If I'd known it was relevant to the colors, I would have specified it. Of course it is. The principle which allows sharpness (aspherical lens) has everything to do with color. In short, sharpness is achieving by "synchronizing" (faulty term) the primary colors on the same plane. L-series lens have superior color accuracy, even though most people are unable to tell the difference and even if what we first notice as difference is sharpness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitmstr Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 The colors of your pictures seem well balanced. Someone suggested you check your MONITOR calibration, I second that. That is the problem it seems. Someone posted a picture of the trees modified in Paint Shop - No offense but, the greens were way too electric compared to the original. Though, that proves two things: 1) Personal taste varies2) A properly calibrated monitor is essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_hinther2 Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 When I look at your picture, I mostly just see one that's too light. Going into Photoshop and darkening the photo with about "half a notch" of curves gives a much more pleasing result on my semi-calibrated monitor. (I also couldn't resist a "skosh" of saturation increase.) Anyway, my point is that if you set your camera for slightly darker images, you might find you like a much greater percentage of them--without having to tweak each one. I would say you have a good camera; just learn what you need to do to make the photos come out to your liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_kieltyka Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 The original example pic looks okay to me given the rather harsh light. A touch of curves or levels tweaking and maybe a slight saturation boost should improve things noticeably. Like other folks I stress the importance of calibrating your monitor. Without doing so you have no way of knowing whether or not what you see on-screen accurately represents your photos. -Dave- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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