Documentary Photojournalism

[matt_l.1]

Hello there -

Please excuse me if this is considered too off topic - i post here as i like this group, i

think you all are probably best to respond and as i think the topic does relate

abstractly..

<p>

I want to be a documentary photojournalist - like Sabastiao Salgado, Mary Ellen Mark

etc etc.. I just love BW film, the grain, the available light shooting (traditional Leica

style, perhaps). I realize that this genre of shooting is getting more into the realm of

art than photojournalism ... much more so in the new digital age. But, there is still

journalism involved.

<p>

I am currently going to the University of Washington, and am shooting for the campus

newspaper ... but i find this 'domestic' shooting quite boring. I want to do

international shooting that has purpose and impact ..

I'm looking at Brooks Institute of Photography, their visual journalism program. From

what i understand they've gone completely digital (to my chagrin), but i still think that

i can learn a bunch about real shooting there, but i do wonder if it does drift away

from what i really want to do as for a career / as an artist.

<p>

My question (finally) is how you would recommend me going about this goal - of

shooting international in some form resembling Salgado. I have an intense drive for

photography - it is what i do. Are there other schools to look at? Does this program

get me to where i want to go? Or do i go on my own and teach myself?

I'm really kind of lost on my journey right now, I want to improve in All aspects of my

work .. and i really don't feel like i am or can in my current situation.

Thank you all for my ideas - feel free to add my current portfolio into the context of

your response.

[steve_barnett2]

Often well known photographers will do workshops, residential or one day, covering many aspects of photojournalism. You may want to research whats coming up and see if anything looks worth signing up for. They are often a very good way of focusing ideas, asking questions, showing work, and testing the water, without committing yourself to a full university course.

[thomas_moraitis]

To get a taste of Salgado's way, it might be interesting for you to have a look at the photography course he is proposing at his <a HREF="http://www.terra.com.br/sebastiaosalgado/">site</a>. Best of luck.

[dfdncithekxlbn8kaglf33]

<I>...but i find this 'domestic' shooting quite boring. I want to do international shooting that has purpose and impact ... </I><p>

Meaningful work can be made at home just as it can abroad, and with great impact. Case in point is Ed Kashi�s recent work on Aging in America. Or, choose any number of Magnum photographers as example and you�ll find some of the most powerful visual journalism made and much of it in your home country.

<p>

<I>... From what i understand they've gone completely digital (to my chagrin), but i still think that i can learn a bunch about real shooting there ...</I>

<p>

Um, yes, and you�ll learn that the little box in your hands is not as important as the one inside your head. You�ll find that if you are going to pay for your desire to travel and work on projects and stories, shooting what your clients want is the way to go, which is transmitting digitally for most projects.

<p>

Most important is finding projects that interest you. Overseas is glamorous, but takes resources that working on projects at home do not. Plus you have a cultural insight into your home country you don�t have elsewhere. Moreover, you can do both and don�t need to limit your interests.

<p>

As for schools... You education is what you make of it. A top notch school never hurts, but you can have a rewarding time at a state school, and get a broader education than at a specialty school. The diverse background will help you understand issues beyond the photo industry. Unsurprisingly, UW is an excellent place. Find out why and look into the journalism program they have. Finally, learning to write will be an important skill to focus on at this stage, as it will benefit your photography and is not easy to learn outside the university environment.

[parker_david]

Check out the Maine Photo Workshops. It sounds like you are on the other side of the country, but I think they are well worth a look.

www.meworkshops.com/

They offered a short course last summer, taught by Eugene Richards. While I didn't attend, I can only imagine it was outstanding.

As per the digital, if you are shooting for prospective publication, of course you'll have to use digital. In the war with editors, photographers have lost. Some of the best photographers in the world today still use film (because they can) when they are not forced to use digital. On that note, I'd love to see an blind survey of leading photogs as to wether they really want to use digital. Most that I know will tell you late at night, and after a few drinks, that they don't.

[larry_kincaid1]

I don't see how anyone your age can avoid digital photography for professional purposes. However, Salgado carries several cameras as do many members of this Leica forum. And I keep hearing that many professionals who use digital for work also carry a Leica RF for their personal use. Except for the extra difficulty of learning two camera systems at the same time, as well as photojournalism itself, I cannot see why someone like yourself wouldn't eventually carry digital equipment for rapid-turn-around-cannot-miss photojournalism, and Leica RF B&W film photography for a different effect and delayed processing. It would be extra work on your part, obviously. It seems to me like digital cameras and zoom lenses are all designed to make everything super fast and easy as possible. I was struck dumb by a comment Eugene Atget (1957-1927) made when he rejected Man Ray's offer of a new Rolleiflex camera circa 1920 to replace his old wooden 18 x 24cm camera: The new one "worked faster than he could think." Worth thinking about, but of course Atget was not a 21st century photojournalist.

 

In Seattle you are suffering from an overdose of familiarity. You have to train your eyes to look past what just seems so mundane. Most of us would love to vist that area to take photographs, one of the richest in the country. So, I'll invite you to leave sleepless Seattle and visit Baltimore to do a photo essay on the nightlife in the old Balitmore harbor in Fells Point.

[dennis_couvillion]

Matt:

 

Don't be locked exclusively into a particular format. The cameras are just the tools. It seems to me the real issue is one of opportunities; learning a medium is just details. You sound like a smart guy. I wish I could draw you a road map that says, "go here", but I'm not sure anyone can. If I were you, I'd stay connected to the art form in every way possible. Do the research about the best schools and pick one. Hang out with other photographers, particularly professionals, if you can. Get to know the people in the art community where you are. Contacts provide information and opportunities, you have to do the rest. Sometimes being in the right place at the right time is the stroke.

 

If you are not married or have children, i.e. no one else to support, go for it. Not many people actually pursue, or reach, their dreams. But, without a little luck, be prepared to be poor in the process. <g>

 

Good luck. It's nice to hear someone passionatley pursuing a dream...

 

Dennis

[john_r._fulton_jr.]

Matt--Photojournalism is a rough road. Every photojournalist I know started at

their local paper.When I was a summer intern in Topeka, Kansas guess who

one of the staff photographers was? David Alan Harvey. Also on staff was

Mark Godfrey who went on to Magnum Photos. You have to start in your

community and document the many, many stories that are there. If you don't

enjoy community reporting you will never get to the international scene.

Forget international. You're not ready for it. You need to concentrate on your

community, working on your portfolio and attending workshops. Today you

should be in San Jose (Cal) at the National Press Photographers Flying

Shortcourse. That's what they're doing. Discussing the community and the

many ways to photograph it. If you're sick of the Seattle area then you need to

find an internship in another (USA) city. You have to work on one piece of the

pie at a time. Eventually you get the whole pie, but not without alot of work.

Good luck with your career. If you truly have a burning desire, you'll do just

fine.

[james_megargee]

Matt,

Take Chris's advise to heart. If you can't "see" the stories around you, why do

you feel that you would be able to somewhere else? And for no other reason

than to practice for the time when you get to travel. Theres an old PJ

assignment - Photograph your best friends or member of your family's day

and create a narrative story (essay). The reason for the assignment is - If you

were sent you to China tomorrow to do a day in the life story on an individual,

you would find someone simply brushing their teeth interesting enough to

make a photograph. Then why do you not find your best friend doing the

same as interesting? Someone in China would.

As an aside - look into the life story of the photographers you admire, you

might be surprised at what you find, many are self educated in the medium

and come from other disciplines. And it was their personal understanding of

these and their life experience that drove them to photograph.

Finally - I have had the chance to work with several of the photographers that

are often mentioned on this forum and I can say that what has been said

about their general dislike of "having" to use digital is true. But anyone

entering into PJ work today "must" have a solid understanding of this

technology. Also IMO, Brooks would not be on my list of PJ schools.

[paulr]

Hello Matt,

 

Although Brooks is a very fine Institute, you will not learn to connect with people and to emulate the Salgados and Marks of this world. They are not shooting spot news. Most of their work are long term projects.

 

I have spent some time in Seattle area and find it a great place to photograph, especially in the city. But, I have also traveled in over 30 countries.

 

Pick a photographic project or social issue where you live. This is how David and Peter Turnley started. There are many others that started their career right around their home.

 

Please, do not become fixated on equipment. I fall into the category of thinking every time I get a new camera my photography will improve. Never happened. So I now stay with a just a few lenses, and guess what.....things are getting better after 20 years of photography. Also I have focused on projects.

 

At the end of the day you have to make a living. Your intense drive will lead you to success (along with some good business savey).

[charles_c._stirk_jr.]

Matt , Just to add a bit of practical to the mix , unless you are

independently wealthy , financing a freelance documentary

photojournalist career is not

impossible , but definitely quite interesting .

 

For quite some time you may need to do commercial

assignments to pay the way these can be fun to , look to NGO's ,

grants , speaking gigs , exhibits many

of these pay much better then the pittance most editorial

publication pays .

 

Take the business course , go to the grant writing workshop ,

you will need those skills.Get the web site and running you will

need the exposure .

 

Language skills and but more importantly cultural awareness

are absolute necessities

 

Plus side travel in most of the world is reasonable a few

thousand dollars isn't much in the states , but in lets say Latin

America , living close to the ground you

can get by for a year or more .

[josh_thomaselli]

Check out the Salt Institute for Ducumentary Studies in Rockport Maine.

also look at the Pratt Institute and possible Arizona State University In Tucson

AZ.

[josh_thomaselli]

Matt just to add on to my previous response. When looking at schools look at

the faculty.For instance when I was lookinbg into Pratt's Graduate program in

the mid 90's they're faculty was composed of who some consider living

ldgends amongst the fine art doc. world. People Like Aurthur Freed, Dany

Lyon, David Vestals. and numerous other visiting staff.

Another great program is Visual Sudies workshop in Rochester NY. original

founded by Nathan Lyons. Don't let the schools title fool you it is an

acrediated 4 year program also offering an MFA program also their summer

workshops are great. check them out at VSW.ORG also did you get a chance

to see my rsponse to your Leica question.

[andrew_lee2]

Wow, advice from none other than Jim Megargee himself. Listen to this man, he knows what he's talking about. <p>

Also have a look at any work by Gene Richards, Eugene Richards, if you think that compelling or even otherworldly photo-documentary work can't be done right here at home, in your own backyard.

[bernhard]

I can second James statement that many excellent photographers came to photography because of their interst in a special topic, not because of their interst in photography itself.

 

I just read the the book "Magnum: Fifty Years at the Front Line of History: The Story of the Legendary Photo Agency" which, I think, would give you quite a nice idea what the approach of many famous photographers was like. It is well known that HCB was and is more interested in painting than photography, but when he wanted to capture/document/show what was going on in the times after WWII he said, he needed something faster than the brush and used his cameras.

 

That's the way it works, you gotta be interested in something and to image and show that something in the first place. And it's good advice to start with your home turf first.

[matt_l.1]

I want to thank you all for some very, very thoughtful advice --

<p>

i've got much to think about. A note on my 'domestic assignments' -- for my paper,

especially as a freshman shooting on an older staff, i'm continuely being sent to

shoot lectures, student groups and environmental portraits. With the low light

limiting shots and most people not willing to give more than 5min to a portrait, i'm

just not pleased with the prospects of growing as a well rounded photographer. The

assignments, in my view, are monotonous and boring, and especially unprofound. I

would Love to do picture stories - i think, even in doing one in my community, i

would learn a great deal, create good images and have an enjoyable time. But, with

my paper, i hardly have the opportunity to do so -- thats why i ask if going away to

actually study photojournalism is better than 'student on-the-job training' ... but

where to go?

<p>

Also, what is your opinion of Brooks? I heard a couple people underhandedly dismiss

it - i'd like to know why you think so. It seems so far in my research a great place to

study... but you might not think so. Why's this? I'd love to avoid going somewhere

wrong ;)

<p>

Again, Much thanks to Everyone thats helping me out!

[dfdncithekxlbn8kaglf33]

<I>But, with my paper, i hardly have the opportunity to do so</I><p>

 

Opportunity in photography is more often made than given. More importantly, you do not need an outlet or brief for a project you want to do at the outset. All you need is to be interested and concern about the subject. From there, your knowledge of the subject will grow from talking with the people you shoot, finding about how other people are handling the subject in other fields, and learning what the non-profits are working in that area. This will fine tune your direction and emphasis while giving you potential outlets and feedback as your work progresses.

<p>

In short, most of photography is not doing for others but doing it for yourself. After all, you did not developing a passion for waiting by the phone for the call to cover city hall, but did so because photography moves you.

[sheridan]

Matt. Your desire to succeed as a photojournalist is obvious and contributors

on this thread have given valuable advice in relation to the journey you'll be

undertaking. <p> A senior photographer here in Australia, Colin Beard, who

started his career as a photojournalist in Britain and finished up one of

Australian Vogue's top fashion photog's in the 70's recounted to me a yarn

regarding a "5 minute" photo assignment he was given with the Rolling

Stones in very early days. Colin, then about 19, was "summoned" to Jagger's

hotel room and told by the man himself to be quick about it. When Colin lifted

his camera Mick turned his back. Colin just wound and clicked. Mick said

that's enough ... your times up! Colin went back home, developed his shots in

his 3 foot square darkroom under his staircase at one in the morning. At about

eight, Colin's editor pulled the semi- dry prints off Colin's little clothe's line and

rushed them out for publication. To cut a long story short the almost defiant

image/s Colin captured were applauded so much by Mick that for a couple of

subsequent shoots Mick made sure all the Stone's gathered at an agreed

place for Colin to shoot them. This 5 minutes put Colin on the map!

[roy_des_ruisseaux]

I can not add too much you have had some execelent advice. I would sugest however when you go to your "boring" assignments see if you can make them interesting. Cover yourself first,such as the picture of the prof. speaking at the lecture, then look around for a different angle or people in the audience etc. You might find something, maybre it will "work" maybe not but you'll learn something. Same with the enviromental portraits. Get the stock one in the "can" then see what else you can do. Be creative. It can be a hit or miss deal but this is a great place to learn as you are not under that much pressure. As for Brooks I have a good friend who went there many years ago and he's quite good,but I think they are more into commercial & studio photography rather than PJ work. I think an NPPA flying short course would be helpful and not too expensive. Plus the Maine workshops or other shorter courses would probably help sharpen your eye.

[tony_p3]

An interesting thread and a great deal of very useful advice has already been posted.

 

The only thing I would add Matt is why not get out to as many demonstrations, marches, strikes etc. that you can and practice there. Then take your pictures to the local papers to see if you can sell them. Picture editors are usually very happy to tell you how they like shots that they will pay for, which usually means changing your style.

 

It will also provide you with the opportunity to see if it's really what you want when disorder breaks out and both sides see you as a threat. "Rioters" don't like being photographed committing crimes and the Police don't like being photographed in the middle of dealing with it. It's better to know you can cope with the situation at home before trying it out for real in a strange country where the projectiles could be bullets ... Tony

[john_r._fulton_jr.]

The reason you are getting "boring" assignments is because the editors are

coming up with the ideas. Become an idea person and come up with your

own picture ideas. Or, team up with a reporter and come up with some better

ideas. Try to make the stories "picture driven" as opposed to what's

happening now which are 'word' stories that need 'art'. Meet people while in

class, in the hallways or while having coffee. Beat the bushes. There are

hundreds of stories that are not being reported.

[Spearhead]

<i> I just love BW film, the grain, the available light shooting (traditional Leica style, perhaps). </i><P>

 

This is a problem. Great documentary photographers love their subjects, the messages, the delivery. Not the film and grain, even if that's what their photos have. They love the subject.<p>

 

<i>I want to do international shooting that has purpose and impact </i>

 

<p>

 

I spent some time over a couple of days with a great (very published), non-US, documentary photograper. He reviewed my portfolio with me and talked quite a bit about what it takes to do documentary work. What I came away from the time I spent with him was that in order to work in other countries (which is what my portfolio had), one needs to have some sort of connection with the culture, or the ability to work with people who have a connection to the culture, or a connection to themes within that culture. If you look at the work of the people you mention, they have that. <p>

 

I'd suggest doing documentary work around home first, work that hits on subjects that mean something to you in one way or another. Then, if you go international, there will be a connection.

[matt_l.1]

First off, much thanks for responding to my question on photo.net

<p>

I want to start by clarifying my comment regarding the use of B&W film for my work -

i mention that i think it is stunningly beautiful, but it is because it conveys the

emotion and depth of a situation so much more to me than simply a color photo,

especially digital. It is in the sense that grainy black and white shows something that

the eye doesn't exactly see - like my editor told me, go get the picture that an

amateur can't grab with their point and shoot; get the shot that you wouldn't see just

by looking at the scene.

<p>

I love bw film because, for me, it is so much more personal -- i connect with the

subject both as a photographer and viewer, perhaps this is me but i love it so much

more than the stuff i get digitally. I suppose this is part of my inner artistry coming

out..

<p>

And as to doing documentary work in my own hometown -- I do this as much as i

can, its simply that it doesn't/won't get published in our paper, a campus daily. Look

at my folders 'beth's cafe' and 'peace rallies' ... i think these qualify as documentaries?

(remember, peace rallies was shot in my senior year of highschool and is my first

such experience shooting something a subject that i hold Very dear over a period of

time. i'm quite proud of what i ended up with - it is currently being shown at a local

bookstore to some notable acclaim).

<p>

I love documenting things, and i do try and do it to the best of my abilities to grow as

an artist/photographer/photojournalist. I posted this question as i don't feel my

current situation shooting at my paper gets me where i want to go as a photographer

--- surely i can still shoot and work on my documentaries, but it is entirely on my

own time (i.e. teaching myself). I'm wanting to find out if there is a place where i can

go to better learn this style in a more academic and technical setting -- i.e. a

photoschool like brooks (who has a visual journalism program, and i would be able to

specialize in documentary work).

<p>

This is what i'm getting at - perhaps i wasn't too clear. Again, THANK YOU VERY

MUCH for your time, and i'd Love to hear if the info contained herein ads anything

more to your understanding of me, my desires and how i should go about them.

[james_megargee]

Matt,

As has been said - many of the people that you admire started in the same

situation as yourself. Stop for a moment and think about who your are and

what you know. Your ? years of age, you live in the northwest and you know

how to photograph. I'm not your age (much older I believe) and I live in the

east. Seeing an insightful look into the world that you exist in would be of

interest to me. I looked at your portfolio on line here and have to say that with

the access that your position offers you (e.g.) (the football team experience).

Think about and look more deaply into what you have not what you don't.

Many young PJ photogs look too large into a project rather than into the

specifics. (Aids in Africa can be seen and experienced through a single family

rather as well as through the entire nation) - e.g. following one individual

member of the team throughout the season; at tryouts, at practice, at home, on

dates, at school, etc. rather than only during game time. In other words, whats

it like to be; this individual, living this, in 2003, in america, in the northeast.

[nesrani]

"grainy black and white shows something that the eye doesn't exactly see - like my editor told me, go get the picture that an amateur can't grab with their point and shoot"

 

I don't think using a particular kind of film guarantees the originality of your perspective, although it's true that black and white does seem to certify the authenticity of documentary work for a certain audience.

 

I think Jim's advice is the best you're likely to get. Who was it who said: it's your personal work that get's you your commercial work, and your commercial work that finances your personal work. At any stage in your photography, you should be doiung wtuff that isn't going to sell, but that may eventually (over years) build up into something that will be of enough interest to merit publication. And that could be either at home or abroad. Note that most stuff done abroad is incredibly superficial and stereotypical, simply because the photographer/journalist has no insight into the local situation anc conditions. So doing stuff at home is probably a better way to produce meaningful work. On the other hand, if you have a deep interest in a particular place or subject abroad, then you can develop that over a number of years into something worthwhile. But really good work takes a lot of time, energy and money to produce. Just going to India or East Timor is no guarantee that you're going to produce something of value.

 

If you're really interested in doing documentary, then one perfectly honourable and commercially viable way to do it is to write software for a living (or do anything else that enables you to earn well) and take time out from that to pursue your personal photographic interests. I don't think there's any great advantage to being a professional snapper, unless you need a press card to get into certain areas - but that can always be arranged in one way or another.

 

Good luck.