light-weight and affordable 8x10" for landscape?

[david_haardt1]

Hello folks,

 

I haven't had much time for photography recently, but have now

decided that I should become more active again! I have experience

with formats from half-frame (18x24mm) to 4x5" large format; at the

moment, I own a Rolleiflex SL66 (which I intend to keep, as it is

easy to handle, can be projected easily, etc.). I had sold my 4x5"

Super Speed Graphic because the format is quite useless without a(n)

(big and expensive) enlarger (and the accompanying darkroom).

Moreover, I felt that the matte screen could have been bigger.

 

Thus: Why not go for 8x10"? It would be wonderful for contact prints

and alternative processes, and more adequate to my stature (6'6").

 

I'm into landscape photography and backpacking - luckily enough, I'm

more of a purist (you know, the guys with one lens and three film

holders). Moreover, I own a very handy Berlebach ashwood tripod

(7003) which is able to accomodate 26.4 lbs (12 kg), although only

weighing 4 lbs (1.8 kg).

 

OK, let's come to my actual question: you guess it, I'm asking which

camera to choose. Obviously, I need a light-weight flat-bed camera.

It should also be affordable and rugged. I'm not that much into long

lenses, I guess that a 480mm lens would be the longest I'd ever use.

 

Based purely upon weight and money - I live in Austria, so I've

multiplied U.S. prices by 1.10264 to account for the exchange rate

(assumed 0.88EUR=1USD), Austrian VAT (20%) and customs duties (5.3%) -

, I have selected the following FIVE cameras:

 

Canham Wood 8X10 EUR 3523 (Badger Graphic incl. VAT/duties), 4.3 kg

(9.5 lbs)

 

Gandolfi 8x10 Variant (Sinar lens board) EUR 3252 (John D. esq.), 4.0

kg (8.8 lbs)

 

Tachihara SW810F WoodField EUR 2090 (Badger Graphic incl.

VAT/duties), 4.2 kg (9.2 lbs)

 

Wehman 8x10 Field EUR 2040 (Bruce Wehman incl. VAT/duties), 4.0 kg

(8.8 lbs)

 

Zone VI Studios 8x10 Ultralight Field EUR 1984 (sale at Calumet Photo

incl. VAT/duties), 4.5 kg (9.9 lbs)

 

---start digression

 

Why I did NOT select certain other cameras:

 

Ebony SV810XX: heavy at 5.0-6.5 kg (11-14.3 lbs), and way out of my

budget.

 

Gandolfi Traditional Precision 8X10: a bit heavier than the Variant,

and much more expensive

 

Lotus Rapid Field 8x10: Austrian, but expensive (EUR 5100) and heavy

(4.9 kg or 10.8 lbs)

 

Phillips 8x10 Compact II: light-weight at 3.6 kg (7.9 lbs), but a

hefty EUR 4898...

 

Shenhao HZX810-IIA: a cheapo at EUR 1323, but heavy (6 kg or 13.2

lbs)

 

Wisner 8x10 Traditional L: the only affordable 8x10" Wisner, heavy at

4.8 kg (10.6 lbs), a bit less expensive than the Gandolfi

 

Wista Field 8x10: seem to be a Tachiharas actually, but more

expensive

 

---end digression

 

Out of the five cameras I've selected (Canham Wood, Gandolfi Variant,

Tachihara SW810F, Wehman, Zone VI Ultralight), where do you see their

relative merits and downsides?

 

Tachihara doesn't seem to be the best camera available, I also often

read about problems with the Zone VI. The Variant is less expensive

and lighter than the Canham, while the Wehman is much less expensive

than the Variant, and of the same weight.

 

Do you feel that the Wehman is a good deal compared to the others

I've mentioned? What about movements - I didn't yet look into this

important topic. Which of these cameras have important advantages or

disadvantages with respect to movements?

 

What else would I need? I'm thinking of a development drum (easy to

handle), a contact printing frame, of course film holders, dark

cloth, and changing bag, a LENS (Oh Dear), filter system, lens shade,

loupe, and maybe some day even a 8x10 Polaroid system. Did I miss

something?

 

To sum up, I'd be very happy to read about your experience. Thanks

for reading my looong post, and thank you for your help!

 

Best regards,

[paul_stimac]

Out of all the cameras you mentioned, I've only actually used the

Wehman 8x10. I love it. It's light and sturdy and that's what

makes it work for me. I use a 1200mm quite a bit and am really

pleased with the results. I also use a 120mm with it. It seems to

have plenty of movements but to be honest, I rarely use

movements other than front and rear tilt. Although I haven't used

the others on your list, I will bet that the Wehman is the sturdiest

and toughest - for whatever that's worth.

Good luck with your purchase.

Paul

[ralph_barker]

You have at least one apple in with your oranges, David. The Tachihara you're looking at is their Super Wide, designed for wide field lenses with only 230mm of bellows extension. You might have an easier time making your decision by making a chart comparing each camera's specs, including the minimum and maximum bellows extension. Then, decide which focal lengths you're most likely to use, and how you intend to use them. That will tell you how much bellows you need.

 

For example, if your "vision" leans toward "normal" focal length lenses (e.g. 80mm on your 6x6), you'll likely want a 300mm lens on 8x10. If you like to do close-ups of things in nature in addition to landscapes, you'll need 600mm of bellows extension (2x the focal length) to get a 1:1 close-up. If, however, you prefer slightly longer-than-normal lenses, you might go for a 450mm lens on the 8x10 as your primary lens. That *may* stretch your bellows requirement even further, depending on what you want to do at closer distances.

 

After going through that exercise, start balancing that with other items on your "wish list". In most cases, you'll have to compromise in one or more areas when you start considering features versus weight versus price. Also note that not all 8x10s are immediately available. Some are made to order, so there can be a substantial delay in actually receiving it, once ordered (and paid for in some cases).

 

For me, personally, my "balance point" was the Tachihara double-extension model (810GF) at about $1300 U.S. It's well made and has a reasonable range of features for the price.

[cxc]

I recently bought a Wehman, selected mainly because:

 

1. Reasonable price

 

2. Pretty light weight

 

3. Very bombproof

 

4. Available for immediate delivery.

 

I am happy with it. I especially like the fact that zero accessories are available, which will save me a fortune over the long term. ;-)

 

I also was tempted by the beautiful Canham wood, but ended up choosing the metal box and the lower price.

 

It's pretty important to understand what movements you use and which you don't, so that you get what you need and don't waste money on useless features. This is relatively hard to judge without some experience, so there is a tendency to seek the maximum of everything, so one doesn't miss out. I bet I am pretty average in using lots of front rise, and a moderate amount (<30 degrees) of tilt and swing, both front and rear. Never back rise, or any fall or shift.

 

Rear rise and shift I think are worse than useless in a field camera, as they weaken the structure without providing me anything useful in return, while costing more.

 

I note you say you won't be backpacking, yet list no monorails as possibilities. Admittedly they are uglier, but they are easier to use -- the one big downside being they are hard to pack and haul around.

 

One last point: don't forget the used market. As cameras go, LF cameras are relatively simple and long lasting, and the marketplace is being flooded right now with everyone fleeing to digitial.

 

Have fun,

 

CXC

[emile_de_leon9]

I would rethink your strategy if I were you. Pay the extra bucks for a Lotus as they are located right near to you. When your camera needs work or you need some modifications or improvements in the future, you will thank the stars that you have a real camerabuilder in the neighborhood and not have to ship it halfway around the planet. When you want to buy another camera you will have built a good solid business relationship with Lotus and this will make your life and 2nd purchase much easier. I just bought a 12x20 from Wisner who is 2hrs from where I live by car. I have already met everyone at the company and I can speak and meet personally with the owner to make sure the camera is exactly as I need it to be. I liked the company so much that I applied and became a Wisner dealer myself and will be selling these fine cameras through my normal retail business soon. You are lucky to have Lotus in Austria!

[tim_atherton2]

Well Gandolfi isn't next door, but it isn't that far away...

[robert_a._zeichner1]

I think I would try and mess with something real cheap and easy to acquire at first, just to make certain 8x10 and view camera technique is for you. Some of the cameras on your lists of possibilities seem to be ones that others have claimed take forever to take delivery on. Wisner and Phillips come to mind. I tried to find a used Wisner Traditional for the last year and ended up with an older Deardorff which I refurbished and replaced the bellows on. It's been great so far, but I don't as a rule hike great distances with it. About 14 lbs. You might try and buy a used, clean Burke & James for a few hundred USD and if all agrees with your style and patience, you'll be able to sell it for what you paid for it and maybe have the use of it while you wait for whatever dream camera you decide on. Just another opinion.

[wayne_crider4]

David I don't want to throw a monkey wrench into your thoughts, but after

selling off my 4x5 to go with an 8x10, I came to the decision that for as large

as I was printing, the 4x5 was the best, especially in terms of weight, film

availability, and processing cost after all was said and done. I like to shoot

slides as well as b&w so from a price standpoint I can bracket and still save

money over 8x10. I think the final nail in my 8x10 coffin was the fact that it

seems I can never get a whole 4x5 image that I don't want to crop something

out of it. Either something is out of focus, or I overlooked something I don't

want in the picture, or after processing I see a better image when cropped. So

since I shoot for alt processing as well as straight prints, for me to start

cropping a 8x10 down was ridiculous since I don't have room for a 8x10

enlarger. I may as well crop the 4x5. In fact 4x5 enlargers are cheap, so if you

have room maybe think about it. Otherwise luck with your decision (the

Canham and Gandolfi's are nice) and post some images of your beautiful

country if you can.

[edward_burlew]

In direct response . I am a Wisner owner, the traditional, I like the ability to remove teh bellows for the bag bellows, The problem is wide angles. I had to make my own lense board to use the 155mm because the focusing track didn't let me go back, well it went back but with no track and no control. recently was in Calumet and looked at the Zone IV. t did allow me to use even a 120mm on the lat wooden board and therefore there was no need for the bag bellows. AND it had TRIPLE EXTENTION. This is a necessity for longer lenses. It did weight a little less, that is here nor there in calculation of the totla weight o he oufit. I like the calumet deal because it uses the sam lense boards as the wisner.I am not selling mine but if I was to get another , well I would get the zone IV. The knobs are big and positive to use and the bed is strong so when you tighten everything up it is solid. That is a necessity. Astetically the light colored wood and the black aluminum is striking.

[william_whitaker1]

David,

 

"Light-weight and affordable" and "8x10" are mutually exclusive domains. Having used several 8x10's I was most happy with a Phillips, but in the end became frustrated over its lack of bellows draw. The other disadvantages of the Phillips (price, availability) are well known.

 

But based on my own experience, my advice to someone interested in trying 8x10 just to see if they like it would be to get an older camera and just one lens. This spring I purchased a Burke & James for about US$250 which is 1/10 the price of most new 8x10's. Granted it needs a new bellows and anyone exploring this route would need to be reasonably adept mechanically or else be willing to pay to have the bellows replaced should it be required. The B&J is a pretty rugged camera and bargains can be found (though I'm not sure if that would apply to Austria).

 

One good lens would get you started and minimize both pack weight (lenses are a substantial part of the weight of any kit) and decisions. Sometimes NOT having a choice of lenses can be liberating. And remember, a lens can be remounted in another board for use on a different camera later.

 

There is much to be said for simplicity. That is one of the qualities which drew me to large format photography in the first place. Too many decisions, too much clutter only confuses the issues and gets in the way of making photographs.

 

A Domke Reporter satchel is the perfect size for about 5 8x10 film holders. Each of the two outside pockets is large enough to hold a 10-inch wide field Ektar in an Ilex #5 Universal. And there's still room for filters. My meter goes in a holster on my belt, the loupe around my neck. The camera stays on the tripod which goes over my shoulder, cushioned by the dark cloth.

 

But to each his own. What works for me may not work for you or for others.

 

Regards,

Will

[bert_otten]

Hello David,

 

A few years ago I bought the Gandolfi Variant 810 in walnut and have been using it with a lot of pleasure next to my 4x5 system. Indeed the camera is not very heavy and well made. The movements are sufficient in the field and most of the times in the studio. It does fit in my backpack with three lenses (150, 240 and 480 mm), filters, cloth, spotmeter and 5 filmholders. Being that big and made of wood and lightweight aluminium adjustments, it is not very rigid, but I have never found that to be a problem. In windy situations I shield the camera. A nice feature of the camera is that you can fit a Cambo back in it, so I got a 4x5 reduction back. The standard bellows allows a 90 mm lens to be used while the 480mm has enough bellows left to focus to a few meters. The looks of the camera are much more toned down than the shiny Japanese and American versions with lots of brass and bright wood.

 

The camera is used for 8x10 black and white (Tmax), transparencies (Provia), polaroid and saltprints. The differences with the 4x5 system are: 1) less DOF or longer shutter times 2) more than twice as slow as the Linhof to set up 3) much bigger ground glass to look at (fantastic to look at it even without taking pictures) 4) attracts onlookers even more, which can be a big problem 5) you take fewer pictures on a trip

 

Finally, when you want to work in the field after flying there, I think it is better to work with a metal 4x5 system. The volume of film, changing tent and the weight of the lenses together with less chance of damage with the checked in equipment are important arguments.

 

When you are making field trips from a car (Austria is great!) an 8x10 can be used without any problems, especially when you don't carry too many filmholders.

 

Hope this is of help to you,

 

Bert Otten