Bristlecone Pines

[mike_lopez]

I'm hoping to camp in the White Mountains sometime this year and I

was wondering if anyone has any lens recommendations for shooting the

Bristlecone Pine groves? I only have a 150mm lens for my 4x5, but I

could rent others if needed. As I've never been there before, I'm

not familiar with the lay of the land, the layout/spacing of the

trees, etc. I would appreciate any advice from people who have been

there before. Thank you.

[Troll]

Well Mike, I've never been there, and in fact have never even seen the National Geographic or NOVA documentaries about the place. But I thought that I'd save a lot of people a lot of posting by doing it myself. 1) Forget that 150mm lens. You must have no longer than a 110mm Super Simonize lens. It would be a lot better if you also took a new 75mm Super Angle iron. Be sure and get the multicoated versions of these as they are the latest and most expensive. 2) As far as that piece of junk that you call a camera. You absolutely can only photograph in the area with the latest Ebony 45RSVP. I am sorry if I have recommended that you must spend so much money on the latest and absolutely necessary equipment that you can no longer afford to make your trip, but isn't the real purpose of all this wonderful stuff to be able to think about how much easier it would make life, if you chose to use it rather than just play with it?

[ralph_barker]

I've only been there once, but I'd think that you should do nicely with just the 150mm. The area is quite open, and the trees learned to self-regulate their proximity thousands of years ago. ;-)

 

On the logistics side, be sure to pay attention to the altitude, and outfit accordingly. It can get darned cold up there, even when it's roasty-toasty at lower elevations. A good sun block with a high SPF is also recommended.

[ralph_barker]

Bill - you were posting your humor while I was still composing my dull suggestions. While I agree that the 110mm Super Simonize lens really shines (but, causes flare problems for nearby photographers), I disagree about the Ebony 45RSVP. Due to lackawattuh at that elevation, the growth rings in these pines are extremely dense. As such, wouldn't the precision of the Sinar igottaP be a better choice? ;-)

[john_randall3]

Hi, Mike

 

Based on my annual shooting sessions at Schulman Grove,

Patriach Grove, and areas along the roads in between, herewith

my recommendations: Generally, lenses with the largest

possible image circle. This assumes your method is to begin by

leveling the camera on all axis. The terrain is steep - and you

may find the better vantage point is often on the downslope.

 

If , however, you don't object to keystoning effects, lighter, less

expensive lenses could be the way to go.

 

My favorites: Schneider 72mm XL with Schneider center filter.

 

Schneider 210 mm APO Symmar f5.6.

 

Rodenstock 150mm APO Sironar-S. The new Schneider

150mm XL would be better, although it's pricy.

 

A 300mm f5.6 of multicoated lineage for more distant, traditional

landscape images. Used Nikkor W f5.6 lenses in excellent

condition for fair prices could be the way to go. See KEH Camera

Brokers, George Ury, Midwest, for current offerings.

 

I know that large format photographers are loathe to carry more

weight than necessary, and that recommending what in some

cases are essentially 8X10 lenses is sure to invite spirited

discussion. But I've found that, for my own purposes at least,

having the flexibility of a stable platform with lots of movement

capability, coupled with lenses that can make use of those

movements, provide for the best combination of ingredients

when filming in this area.

 

Hope this helps, and good luck on your White Mountain shoot.

 

Best regards,

[harley]

I was just up there a week ago and found myself using my 150mm more than my 80mm or 210mm. There is not much foreground to anchor a wide angle shot. I think you will do just fine with your 150mm.

[Troll]

Only kidding. Hope you have a great trip.

[james___]

Mike, take what you have, and enjoy just being there. If anything, I would take a wide angle lens like a 90 or shorter because of the near far relationships it gives you. And the DoF is greater when using it as a closeup lens. There are many different scenes up there from as close as an inch to as far away as infinity. Have a great time and if you see an old geezer trudging along with an oversized pack say hi. It will be me. I'm up there at least once a month.

[donald_miller1]

While others may trivialize this momentous consideration, I will take a different approach and suggest that you consider alternative locations for bristlecone pine infestations. Mount Evans west of Denver is heavily populated. Camping there may be a bit of a treat since you can wave at all of the touristas making their way up and down the paved road.

 

Additionally if you can find your way past the local beer joint and the constable at Alma, Colorado you will find a hardy stand on the mountainside to the northwest of beautiful downtown. Probably a few less touristas to invade your privacy but hey, solitude can go too far.

 

Seriously have fun.

[brian_ellis3]

Bill - What a relief to know you were only kidding! I just took delivery of an Ebony camera. When you mentioned an Ebony RSVP my palms got sweaty and I developed a nervous tic, thinking that maybe I had ordered an older, outdated camera and would be pitied, looked down upon, maybe even ridiculed by members of the Ebony club. I feel much better now that I know there's no such camera as the Ebony RSVP so that my position in the camera hierachy remains in its original elevated state. But please, no more jokes like that, it was extremely disturbing.

[michael_a._smith1]

I hate to get serious in the midst of this fine discussion

especially when others have made what is essentially the same

point with humor, but get serious I must.

 

Mike, you have asked the wrong question. When photographing

in the natural landscape, the lens or lenses you select, a priori,

to use have nothing to do with where you are photographing; they

are a function, rather, of how you see. No one can know the

kinds of things you generally photograph--distant views, close

up, medium space pictures. And then, no one can know how you

will see these things--will the distant view include serious

foreground, necessitating a wider rather than a longer lens, or

will they be views of just the distant spaces, necessitating a

longer a longer than a wider lens.

 

Only you can know the answers. I recommend that you use what

you have. If you find yourself wanting a longer or a shorter lens,

save up for one and use it next time--there or elsewhere. But

until then, learn to see in terms of the equipment you already

own.

 

How can anyone recommend a lens for you? Do you want them

to tell you what to photograph, too. And where to stand?

 

Michael A. Smith

[mike_lopez]

Thanks for all the helpful (and humorous) responses, everyone.

 

Michael, I appreciate your insight into �seeing� and lens use. Thoughts similar to yours entered my mind after I posted my question. But the main reason I asked the question was because it will take me a full day of driving to get to that location, and likely involve a couple days off work. And because my wife is expecting our first child, it will likely be my last camping excursion for awhile. If it were a location near home, then yes, I could just return as I knew more about what equipment I might need. But that won�t be possible, so I was trying to get a feel for what I need based on input from people who�ve actually been there. I understand that nobody can tell me �how to see� or what lenses I absolutely must have regardless of my vision. But if I had received a bunch of responses from people saying �The trails have been closed to allow vegetation to grow; you can�t get close to the trees and you�ll need a good telephoto to isolate them from the stuff in the distance,� I would have taken this advice to mind. Or if people had posted powerful images of the groves shot with wide lenses, I would consider that, as well.

[michael erlich]

A few tips on driving up to the Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest:

 

The road, once you get past the visitor center, is in bad shape. I'd recommend a 4WD

with good ground clearance and sturdy tires. My Saturn sedan just wouldn't cut it,

and I had to turn back after a few miles. The trip down the mountain is very steep and

winding, and I had to stop several times to let the brakes cool. Next time I go there

I'm driving a Jeep.

[capocheny]

Mike,

<p>

There was a fellow by the name of Gordon Hastings who was selling his images on

ebay back a short while ago. Among them were quite a few shots of the Bristlecone

Pines that you'll be going to photograph.

<p>

It may be worthwhile for you to do a search for his name on ebay and view some of

his images. I thought they were quite good...

<p>

Hope this helps.

[michael_a._smith1]

The Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest is one of the best places to

photograph there is--for landscape. Great things along the road.

Stop whenever you feel like it. But don't bother to stop at the

Shulman Grove--go instead straight to the Patriarch Grove. It is at

a little over 11,000 feet. Park and walk in any direction. Lots of

opportunities for all focal length lenses. You can return day after

day for weeks and only begin to touch on all of the possibilities.

 

The road is not that difficult, unless it became so in the last few

years. Some of the back roads up there might be rough, but the

main road, though dirt, shouldn't be a problem.

 

For a change of pace, from the Patriarch Grove backtrack for 1/4

to 1/2 mile to the turnoff for it and continue up the hill (you will be

making a right turn). The next 1/4 mile or so is very steep, but

after that it isn't bad. You'll find yourself about tree line and in

another world. Take the road to the locked gate, turn around and

return to the Patriarch Grove. That part is a most memorable

drive.

 

Have a great trip.

 

Michael A. Smith

[claire_curran1]

You do not need a 4WD vehicle to visit the Bristlecone groves. You won't even need a high clearance vehicle if you watch for rocks in the road. Flat tires are common due to the type of rock material in road. Have a good spare tire. I am in the groves quite a bit and have never had a single road problem, even when snow was on the road. The roads off the main road are a different matter. Some of them truly are 4WD roads and one in particular takes some off road experience. When in doubt about a section of a road, walk it first.

 

The Discovery Trail at Schulman Grove has some interesting features. Schulman Grove itself is less interesting than other places for Bristlecone. Hike off the road and look for interesting trees with views. There are some wonderfully gnarled trees with gorgeous views if you are willing to hike.

[james___]

Ah, but I'll have to disagree somewhat with Michael Smith a bit here. If all you ever use is the lens (paper, dev, film, format, ect) you have, then how will your vision ever change? How will you ever see anything but what the limitations of said equipment limit you to? How will he ever know that using a wide angle lens elongates a scene and a long lens foreshortens the scene? How will he find out that using a short lens may help him get closer to his subject while backing up yet using a longer length lens brings into the scene perhaps some unwanted objetcs. Wide angle lenses help overcome DOF issues much better should he want to make closeups of wood detail.I say use whatever you can get your hands on and use it a lot. Use it till you wear it or your subject matter out. By staying with what ya brung, you limit yourself to only that which the equipment allows you. Why use only color because a certain famous photographer shoots only color? Or why shoot only black and white emulsions because that is what most everyone shoots at a certain location? Why not shoot both? How many people have gone to Point Lobos and shot the same tired rocks that every other photographer has shot there since Weston although he wasn't by any means the first to shoot there? And you would ask your self, as many here have, why shoot the same tired old rocks? What can be new here? Well look at what Martha Cassanave did with a pinhole camera there. Take what you can get your hands on and shoot, shoot, shoot. I enjoy being told to shoot film X, developed in process Y, and printed like printer Z does. Over and over. When there is so much more that can be done with photography. Don't limit yourself. Try it all. You never know what your vision really truly is until you've explored all alternatives. Not everything has to be sharp 10 zone dramatic realism. Look around you and discover what there truly is in the world of photography. And for God's sake, don't be afraid to copy. There ain't nothin new under the sun except for Robert Parke Harrison. Here's one of my tired old cliches but it's at least different than what everyone else comes back from here with.

[james___]

And if you want a real thrill, ride a mnt bike from Big Pine all the way to the Patriarc Grove and back. Especially with a 4x5 Speed and grafmatic holder. What an experience. Takes all day but it is worth it. The way back down is stupendous. Fell the tension man, what a ride. Or from Big Pine up over the top to the Silver Canyon turnoff, and then a real ride for your life all the way back to Bishop. If you live.