labeling of 4x5 film

[steven_quinones]

Hi everyone:

I'm new to large format and I'm finding myself wishing for a way of

labeling my film. With roll film its easy to identify what you did

since we have frame numbers to match notes made on the field. But

since I have this new level of accuracy I find myself trying different

things with exposure, aperture, depth of field etc. Sometimes it's

difficult to tell negatives apart since I may have only changed

exposure by 1/3. Is there any sort of pre or post exposure device that

can imprint data on the film. Something as simple as a frame number.

Perhaps some kind of led display that you would expose the film to.

Thanks,

Steven Quinones-Colon

[igor_johanson]

The post exposure device that can imprint data on the film is a common pen and ink. There is no pre exposure device.

[steven_quinones]

Unfortunately I've experienced trouble writing in total darkness ;)

[tim_atherton2]

There is a pre-exposure LED thingy that imprints in the film borders - costs a fortune (Lisle Kelco in Canada was selling em off before they went down the tubes).

 

There's also a film holder that imprints numbers from a dial (as does the graphmatic sheet holder)

 

BUT - don't waste your money - label/number your film holders, keep notes of which holder for which shot and then identify the sheet vis a vis the particular holder by filing a series of notches in the film holder flap (these will show up on the film edge) using a roman numeral sort of code - or any code of your own devising....

[steven_quinones]

BUT - don't waste your money - label/number your film holders, keep

 

Great Tip!!

Thanks,

Steven

[leonard_evens]

There do exist film holders which record an ID on the film. Calumet Photo sells Riteway 4 x 5 film holders which do that for $29.95 each.

 

You can also cut notches in standard film holders as someone else suggested.

 

I numbered my film holders and I keep records of how each sheet is exposed. I develop my bw film in a Beseler drum, and if I'm careful I can remember where I put each sheet. When the film is processed and dry, I mark the film with a fine point marker pen on an edge. That would be harder with tray processed film or film processed in a lab.

[steve_feldman2]

Post-It Notes

[tim_atherton2]

they do get kinda soggy though - and they leave that annoying square on the film (not too bad if you can get it in the sky)...

[scott_jones2]

If you use a JOBO drum, then just keeping them in order when you put them in and when you take them out makes it easy to correlate with your film holder labels and notes. Ya gotta be compulsive about it though...

 

http://www.ScottJonesPhoto.com

[alex_hawley]

I have my holders numbered sequentially, 1,2,3, ect., and always write the type of film loaded in each in pencil so its eraseable. I've used sticky notes but in the desire to have something of a permanent record to understand how I screwed up, I came up with this sheet. Its not mine originally. Its modified from the similar one in "The Negative" by A. Adams.<div></div>

[tommy_mitchell]

While we're on this topic, I would like some more information on filing or notching the film holder flap. I've heard of this but as yet haven't been bold enough to try it. I guess my Dremel rotary tool would suffice.

 

Would anybody be so kind as to describe the coding system they use for this?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Tommy Mitchell

[neal_shields]

I printed little numbers on clear overhead sheet material and cut them out and glued them to the inside of the negative holder flap. There are notches that I was told were for exactly this sort of thing, but you lose a bit of negative.

[steve_baggett]

I used to use the method Neal uses (small printed pieces of overhead sheet material taped to the flap), but I kept knocking them off when loading film, etc. Also, night shots or very thin areas near the �tabs� would often prevent the number from exposing on the film. Here's a method that will uniquely identify up to 16 sheets (8 holders) in the dark unambiguously and reliably. Number your film holders. Then, while you load (or unload) the film, clib 1-2mm off the 4 corners in a binary series with fingernail clippers or small scissors. (Just the smallest clipping of the corner will do.) Establish a counting order (of your choosing) of the corners and don�t deviate. For example, the corner next to the notches (emulsion side up) is always the first digit, then move counter-clockwise to the next corners in succession. Let a clipped-corner represent a binary 1 and a non-clipped corner represent a binary 0. This will give you 0000 through 1111 in binary which is 0 through 15 decimal (16 sheets). Practice counting in binary and you can do it in automatically, one, ten, eleven, one hundred, etc. Number your film holders 0-15 or just keep notes of which ones are which, e.g., 4A=0000, 4B=0001, etc. If you can�t count in binary, here�s the series: 0000=0 0001=1 0010=2 0011=3 0100=4 0101=5 0110=6 0111=y 1000=8 1001=9 1010=10 1011=11 1100=12 1101=13 1110=14 1111=15. For example, number 3 would have the corner next to the notches and then next corner over (counter-clockwise) clipped, but not the other two. This system is a lot more practical that it sounds at first. Give it a try.

[ralph_barker]

Tommy - the system I'm thinking about is to notch one side rail for the holder number (v thru vvvvvv for 1 thru 6), and the other side rail for the side number (either v or vv for 1 or 2). But, it depends to a degree on how many holders you use, and how many times you reload on a given trip as to the final implementation. If you reload in the field, for example, you might need a more elaborate system for holding exposed negs pending processing, so you can relate the negs back to your notes. If you use a Dremel, be sure to clean up the burrs on the back side.

[neil_poulsen1]

I recently came up with a little different approach that you can consider.

 

I purchased some blank Avery 8066 labels. They're about 3.5 x 3/4" removable labels, and they just fit at the top of a standard 4x5 film holder. After working with Word, I added text and space for Subj:, d:, Pl:, Rf:, F:, l:, s:, f:, and D:. This is for subject, development (N+1, etc.), place, reference number, film, lens, time, f-stop, and date respectively. My lazer printer does a good job printing these headings on each of the 30 labels on a label page.

 

As I take the photo, I write the appropriate information in these headings for that sheet of film at the top of the holder. Later, when you develop the film, the lab can tie a numeric code between the label (still on the holder) and the given sheet of film so that you can match them up later. Being removeable, you can do just about anything with the label, like paste it into a book, or even on the acetate sleeve for the negative. (Not sure about the archival characteristics if you do this.)

 

If I need the holder before I process the negative, then I put the sheet film into a separate empty film box and paste the label onto the box. Same principle. The lab can tie the sheet film back to that box/label.

 

Another advantage is that I write the film type/brand on the label and paste it on the holder when I load the film. This avoids not knowing what kind of film that's in a given side of a holder.

 

I've been using this, and it works fine for me. I think it's a lot better than holders that use up a portion of the negative for identification. Sometimes, losing that 1/8th of an inch can make a

big difference when you print the negative.

[brent_doerzman]

Steven & Tommy,

 

I went with the notched film holder idea. I learned about it in school years ago, and it's worked great. I notched the 10 holders I had in school, and after years of acquiring new ones and telling myself to notch them all, I finally did, and it's made life a lot easier.

 

Originally I used a triangular file to make the notches. That was fine for 10 holders back then, but I now have approx. 40 holders, and the filing was taking WAY too long. So, I actually used a small drill bit on a drill press, not drilling straight down, but keeping the bit in one position, and moving the holder in and out to carve out the notch. Worked pretty good, and went a lot faster. Did all 30 in about 30 minutes.

 

I can totally understand why some people wouldn't like to mess with there holders like this, and I can see how you could easily slip and ruin one. As you can see by the images I posted below, there is no light leak in past the notches, as long as you don't carve too far. I've been lucky in that not a single one of mine has had a problem.

 

My method is this: notches for 10's on the left, 5's in the middle, and 1's on the right. So, 3 notches on the left, 1 in the middle, an 2 on the right is the #37. See this page for a few images to illustrate this better I hope:

 

http://www.doerzmanphoto.com/film_holders.html

 

 

Now, the way I usually shoot is to take two sheets (more if the shot warrants it, or the light is changing rapidly) of each shot, record the holder number and info (shutter, f/stop, lens, filters etc, etc) on my little digital voice recorder. When back home or in camp at night, I transcribe my notes to paper. Then I download one sheet from every setup into the same box (unless there are any pushes or pulls) and have the lab run them normal. When I get them back, I know exactly which sheet is which, and can judge how to run the remaining sheet from each setup if any adjustments in exposure are needed. I used to have to download into lots of separate boxes, and that is a real pain.

 

I will admit the only problem I have with this method though. When shooting an image that is very dark or black on the edge with the notches in it, it is very hard or next to impossible to see the markings on the film, so that can make for guess work. The way I've gotten around that is that with my notes and memory of what order I shot them in, I'm able to narrow it down, and it all works out.

 

Of course, Readyloads and Quickloads are great ways for easy organization, but they are a lot more expensive I'm afraid. I use them when backpacking, but stick to the holder most other times.

 

Best of luck, and I hope I didn't ramble too much :) Take care!!

 

Brent D

www.doerzmanphoto.com

[lwg]

The Grafmatics will do this as someone pointed out. I wouldn't say they are a waste of money. I have just purchased some and they are very convenient and let you take more film into the field. I also seem to have less dust issues with them - I am guessing since they have fewer moving plastic parts to build up static charge. Or maybe it's just that the humidity is now high around here.

[david_lazarus]

K.I.S.S. rule, use postit notes and pencil.

[steven_quinones]

Thanks for everyones answer. I didn't expect this great response. I'll be sure to post more questions as I encounter them. I think the binary count and clip idea will work the best for me. Since it's tactile and I can always findout the sheet number before or after development. I send all my film out until I get a Jobo.

[wally_hess1]

I know that the film manufacturer prints name and exposure number on roll film along the margins. Would it be possible or practical to ask the film manufacturer to imprint a tiny sequential code on one margin to uniquely identify each sheet? The sheets would be loaded into ordered, numbered holders to enable them to be matched up with the notes later on. Dumb idea or what?

[pvp]

I use the notched flap system. See Brent's link; it is definitive.

[jnorman2]

you have received a lot of answers to this, some which are reasonable and some which are not. please take a minute and look at the HABS/HAER standards for labeling negatives for archival purposes. this is the way i do all my work for the library of congress, and is pretty standard practice for any professional work.

 

jnorman

sunridge studios

salem, oregon

[igor_johanson]

So actualy there is a "pre printing device". Brent's idea of marking the holders is great. I marked holders A, B, C, etc. plus 1 and 2 so that I can identify each holder if there is a light leak, but I mark the film after developing. Have to be very careful with position during processing etc. This method helps much. I think I am going to drill holes with a tiny drill (the holes can be closed if so required with an epoxy) and number them using Brents method. A high-tech, simple, solution. thanks!

[vdonti]

WoW,

 

A lot of ideas - may I share mine? After several trials I developed this method and have used it to label my 150 film holders. I know, a lot, but I like to load in my darkroom and like to take trips.

 

Roman numeral --- use three items 1. A V or triangular file (no. 5 or 50) 2. A small chain saw file (round)(no 10 or 100) and a fine hacksaw blade in a small hand holder (no 1 or 10.

 

As you hold up and look at the bottom of the flap mentally divide it into three sections, left, middle and right.

 

On the left the saw or I = 10, the V = 50 the U (1/2 round) = 100

 

The middle designates either "A" side with the V or "B" with the U

 

On the right I-1, V=5 and U=10. I used IIU for 8 to keep my notched down to 3.

 

2 things to remember

 

1. start the notches past the raised flat area on the ends of the flap

 

2. Always load your film with the film notches in first with un-notched film at the flap. This has the added benefit to locate light leaks because you not only know which holder a particular film was in but where on the holder the light leak is located.

 

I tried the dremmel tool and drill bits - nothing I found was as accurate and easy to do as this sustem way.

 

Good Luck

 

Vinnie