will_groff Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 Would anyone know if a helical mount is available for the Nikon 90mm SW lens, and who might distribute this item? Bill Groff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_photo Posted August 24, 2003 Share Posted August 24, 2003 The Robert White company of England sells Schneider mounts and would know if Nikons are available or if Schneiders can be adapted. http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/lenses.htm#LabelSchneiderFocusing%20Mounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_groff Posted August 25, 2003 Author Share Posted August 25, 2003 Thanks for the help Joe. I have been to the sight, should be solid info from them. I'm working on a handheld 4x5 project. I've been testing with a zeiss protar V lens, no shutter, uncoated, a newer lens is the only way to go for contrast and helical would bring it together. From what i've read, the Nikor is most appealing to me. I'll post what i find out in the next few weeks. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_briggs2 Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 Which 90 mm Nikkor-SW, the f4.5 or the f8? Is there a compelling reason for choosing a Nikkor? It would seem more straightforward to buy the lens and helical focusing mount from the same manufacturer -- you could be sure that they would be compatible. Rodenstock also makes helical focusing mounts. Their brochure "Apo-Grandagon, Grandagon-N" has a brief description and shows a photograph of a 90 mm f6.8 Grandagon-N in Copal 0 on a helical focus-mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lam___ Posted August 25, 2003 Share Posted August 25, 2003 hi If you are based in the USA, skgrimes makes a large focuser too see http://www.skgrimes.com/thisweek/1_8/ http://www.skgrimes.com/thisweek/1_5/index.htm ( Disclaimer : I have never used his products before but he's got a great reputation ) Also here is another site http://www.fotographis.com/campages/4x5.htm that uses a Nikon 50mm helical I tried that with a carl zeiss 50mm but my Fuji 65mm F8 rear element is too big to fit in : ( Think i may fabricate sliding tubes for focusing instead Lam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_groff Posted August 26, 2003 Author Share Posted August 26, 2003 I would be going for the f8 Nikkor-SW, the sharpness, size and multi-coating, affordability to buy new, are together compelling. I have seen the rodenstock helical on the B+H sight however, and the Grandagon is definitely my close second choice. I guess the real question is does Nikon make a matching helical for there own lenses? Seems to be an unknown right now. I'll have to check out the SK Grimes focuser, but to be honest, I would go for an exact factory match at this point, or send the lens to SK Grimes and get it set right by a real pro. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_groff Posted August 26, 2003 Author Share Posted August 26, 2003 I've got to see that Grandagon brochure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_salomon Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 " I've got to see that Grandagon brochure." Then ask us to mail you one if you are in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_groff Posted August 26, 2003 Author Share Posted August 26, 2003 Well Bob, how about sending me that brochure. I do have one specific question for you as well, if I may. If I was to buy a used Grandagon, will all models be able to receive the helical mount; is there any cutoff serial # etc, will they all adapt properly? I'm located down here near the "mouse house", in Florida. Bill Groff PO Box 741 Winter Park, Fl. 32790 You guys are great, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_salomon Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 "will all models be able to receive the helical mount" No. Only those in 0 shutter. The 90mm 4.5 is in a 1 shutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_jiri_loun Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 Bob, are you speaking about some new model or about the original helical mount? Thanks for you answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_salomon Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Current helicoid mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_jiri_loun Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 If the "current helicoid mounts" are the original ones and not an improved model, which I think is the case as I have a Rodenstock brochure about them, then I dare to warn you, Bill, about their inherent construction flaws. There are several of them. First, the mount is constructed in such a way that it doesn't allow using all the image circle of a given lens (and I use it with a Rodenstock lens.) It limits the image circle as its tube is too narrow and too long. Thus you cannot use if for the maximum film format that the lens would otherwise cover. Second flaw is even more serious - some of the parts of the mount are glued (!) together with a glue that doesn't hold in cold temperatures. I took the helicoid mounts outdoors on a cool morning and while moving it it desintegrated. The glue didn't hold! It is not easy to glue the parts together as their relative positions influence the precision of a focusing scale, if you have made one for it. Fortunately, the original glue left traces and I was able to glue the parts again precisely aligned. I was not the only one who had this unpleasant experience with this mount. Many years ago there was an article in Shutterbug written by someone who had exactly the same experience!What is more, the third flaw of this mount is that it uses lubrication which makes the focusing very hard - especially in colder temperature. This third flaw can then become the cause of the glue braking. Perhaps Rodenstock conceived it just for indoors use, a great mistake, or simply didn't use the right lubrication means. From the time I repaired mine I never head the accident again but I have no confidence in it in cold temperatures. For this reason I would agree with those here who sugested you buying Schneider helicoid mount. I can't imagine Schneider would use glue and of this quality to have these results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_salomon Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 George, I am very sorry you had a problem. However we have sold hundreds of these to both consumers and camera manufacturers and have not received one complaint as you have detailed. Nor have we ever had a problem with the first ones at any of the times we have used it for demo at shows since this mount has been available. Since this mount has not been available for that long the individual in Shutterbug had to have had a different mount. As an OEM manufacturer Rodenstock has several different types of mounts available - depending on application. Most are not sold in the photographic narket but are used for custom OEM applications. We can not speak about how those are constructed as we do not market them. But we can speak from several years experience with the ones available through the photo market and they have been 100% trouble-free. As for your description of it being too long. That does not make any sense. The shutter mounts directly to the front thread of the focusing mount. The rear group screws directly into the rear of the shutter once it has been attached to the mount. The rear opening of the focus mount is 62.18mm (it fits a standard 3 hole). The total length of the 55mm mount (the one I have in front of me) is 25.58 mm at the closest focusing position and 18.01mm when focused to infinity. The rear element's diameter on the 55mm is 60mm which allows it to fit easily within the opening at the rear of the focus mount. When the 55mm Apo Grandagon is mounted to the focus mount the rear group of elements protrude beyond the focus mount by 5.82mm with the mount at the closest distance. At infinity the rear group protrudes past the focus mount by 13.93 mm. In short it does not match what you are describing! In addition the mount is assembled with many set screws. To hold the focusing ring on to the body of the tube there are 4 screws covered by a textured rubber ring. The front ring of the focus mount that the shutter attaches to is held in place by 5 screws. In addition 2 screws opposite each other guide the helicoid so it tracks straight in and out. All of the Rodenstock focusing mounts for large format lenses in 0 shutter are made this way. It would appear that you do not have one of these mounts. And in the nearly 20 years that we have been the Rodenstock distributor these are the only helicoids for taking lenses that have been offered from Rodenstock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_jiri_loun Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Bob, I was not sure that we are speaking about the same thing. That's why I asked you about the type of the focusing mount. My focusing mount has written this on the rim - Modular focus 11175734 and is together with Apo Sironar - S 5.6 - 135mm lens. There are no screws at all on the assembly that could attach it to something. I needed to have a custom made ring in order to attach it to the camera body (the camera is a home made one with a 6x12 roll film back). Obviously this doesn't correspond to the mount you describe. Otherwise all I said is true, so the Modular Focus is the bad baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_groff Posted August 28, 2003 Author Share Posted August 28, 2003 From Lam's reference, I contacted SK Grimes about there Focus 1 mount for the 90mm Nikor SW f6.8./copal #0 This is a project that they had done before for a Cambo wide. Adam at SK Grimes quoted the price to fabricate the focuser at $250.00, an additional $75.00 to engrave distance marks on the mount. Both lens and body would need to be sent to them also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_salomon Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 George, You have a Mickey Mouse set-up, I'm sad to say. The Modular Focus is made to use 39mm Leica thread enlarging or duplicating or 32.5mm enlarging lenses with T2 adapters or 39mm Leica thread mounts for 35mm or C mount adapters for Video or movie cameras. It was never designed for or recommended for large format taking lenses. The proper focus mount for a 135 is made just for the 135mm. It has a calibrated focusing scale with DOF scale, it is marked "for 4x5"/9x12cm" and is only slightly more then a Modular Focus with the proper adapters. Unlike the Modular Focus the camera Focus Mounts do not accept extension tubes as an accessory and the front and rear mount sizes are fixed at a 0 size in front and a 3 size in back.How did you manage to get what you have? And you should think about replacing it with the correct focusing system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_jiri_loun Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Bob, how did I managed to get the setup? Imagine - I ordered the focus mount together with the lens right from the Rodenstock distributor in US! All the info I got was from their brochure which doesn't even mention a modular focus mount you speak about. I ordered the focus mount and the lens and got what I have. Not knowing all possible focus mounts they have I took it for granted that I got what I ordered. Doesn't it speak volumes about people at the Rodenstock distributor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_salomon Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 George, We are the Rodenstock distributor and would not send a Modular Focus for a camera lens. We carefully ask what lens and camera you need a Modular Focus for so it would have the correct adapters. Since the adapters are moudular. For taking lenses we always ask for what focal length since each lens requires a different one. Now from whom exactly did you buy it and what did you actually ask for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_jiri_loun Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Bob, to add some spice to the story - on July 3, 1996 you wrote a letter to the Shutterbug editor regarding my article in the August issue of that year. The editor contacted me and I answered you with a positive letter writing to you, among others, this sentence: "It might please you knowing that as a result of your information I have ordered one of these new lenses in helicoid mounts from N.Y. as I will use it for a construction of yet another specialised camera." Unfortunately, today I cannot find a copy of my order. Did I make a mistake in the letter to you saying I ordered it from NY while I wrote to you to NJ? I have no way to know. Nevertheless, what is important for me is to know that a correct focusing mount exists. I'm glad that the misunderstanding is now cleared. I might even order it again, with a better result this time, who knows... Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_salomon Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 George, If you said you ordered it for a 135 taking lens you would not have received the enlarging lens mount. At this time I have no idea what the dealer ordered as the files from 96 are in cold storage and there would be no way to access them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_jiri_loun Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Never mind, Bob, the life is going on. At least now I know what the right mount is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_groff Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 I'm going to the beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_salomon Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Well George I now know exactly what happened. The Focusing Mounts for taking lenses wereintroduced in July of 1998. The Modular Focus System for enlarging and duplicating lenses was introduced in July of 1994. Since yours was purchased in between theses dates someone modified the Modular Focus system to work with a lens it was never designed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_groff Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 Bob, does the correct helical mount for the Grandagon F8 rotate the entire unit including the shutter? Maybe George qualifies for a discount on a new helical in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now