Pentax 67 - 75mm shift

[trevor_smithers]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone using the P67 75mm shift lens.

Pentax quote a 20mm shift range for this lens, however is this really

a full 20mm of up shift (and presumably side to side) or does it mean

10mm up/down = 20mm overall.

 

Also be interested in comments on overall quality of the lens, ease

of use, pros/cons etc for architectual situations.

 

Trevor

[simon_gammelin]

I used the 75mm shift lens for a big project about four years ago and thought it served well, though movement-wise it's no substitute for a view camera (but then, nothing is, and an SLR can can do a lot that a view camera can't!). I suspect the 20mm figure is pretty close, and that's in any direction (not just 10+10); the lens rotates to 8 or 12 different positions so that you can, for example, shift up and to the left (as opposed to just straight up/down or to the left/right). Maybe slight darkening of corners with increased shift, but them's the laws of optics and it's not what I'd call vignetting unless you've got filters on.

 

Ease of use? Quite convenient, though you have to stop down manually after focusing and before shooting (the aperture ring is on the filter-end of the lens). This takes a week or two to imprint on one's brain.

 

Architectural use? Hmm. The problem is the focal length; at roughly a 37mm equivalent (in 35mm terms, I mean) the 75mm shift lens isn't wide enough for many architectural applications. Note that the Mamiya 6x7 shift lens is also 75mm, but costs a lot more and uses a much larger filter size than the Pentax (but I've never used the Mamiya).

 

Overall quality, reliability, and optical quality of this lens were quite good, as I recall. While Canon's three T/S lenses are the best such lineup in photography, they've always struck me as a little more fragile than the medium-format shift lens offerings from Pentax (6x7) and Mamiya (645 and 6x7), all of which feel a bit sturdier.

 

Good luck.

[ben_greenberg]

I too have been interested in having a shift lens for my Pentax 6x7 system; unfortunately, I agree with the comment that the 75 mm is not wide enough for architectural use. I once had an extensive Nikon system and the 28 mm Nikkor Perspective Control lens was great. I don't believe, however, that the 75 mm will work nearly as well with its focal length. Does anyone know of any other options?

[simon_gammelin]

There's no other practical option that works with the P67 body; you can, of course, buy various view-camera-type adaptors but these tend to be both more costly and more unwieldy than a view camera itself. MF shines when you like everything about a particular brand, but when you want something that that brand doesn't offer you're kind of stuck.

 

Assuming that one wants to hang on to one's Pentax or Mamiya system, I think the best solutions for perspective control involve finding other MF options that have perspective control. The Hassy ArcBody, the Horseman SW612, and the CamboWide with roll-film back all offer far more flexibility than any mere shift-lens-on-an-SLR can. Granted, the lenses and bodies aren't compatible with your Pentax or Mamiya, but at least you only have to carry one format of film (120)--and you may be able to leave your wider P and M lenses at home.

[rolland_elliott]

Buy an old Bronica S2 Tilt Shift Bellows for $200 to $250 and on the camera end replace the mount with the P67 Mount and on the lens side replace the mount with a Mamiya RB Mount. Replace the bellows with a homemade bag bellows. The Mamiya RB mount has about a 3/4" longer film to lens distance so will allow infinity focusing with movements in most situations. I'm thinking the Mamiya 50mm lens would be a good starter! I haven't done this yet, but will try in the next few months. I'll keep ya updated.

[ian_white]

Rolland Elliot is known for doing some amazing and unusual things with lenses, so I hesitate to comment on his post. However I contemplated doing something similar with the Mamiya RZ 50mm lens. Never mind the problems with an electronic shutter, I found that the image circle when focussed at infinity was roughly 98mm in diameter.

Since my 6x7 negatives were actually 57mm x 69mm, I calculated that the shift in both vertical and lateral direction would be only + and - 6mm, before vignetting and hardly worth the effort.

I am still looking for a viable MF sift/tilt solution.

It is worth noting that the Mamiya handbook claims a shift of 20mm (I assume +/- 10mm) and several old postings show that this is quite inadequate for achitectural purposes.

 

Ian

[dorian_weber]

Hi MF List Members,

I just got to this list recently. This is my first response.

 

I am using the Pentax Shift for many years (over 10 in fact).

If anybody ask me - This is my preferred lens for everything, except

people. It is a bit too slow for moving subjects. Landscape-I would

not want to miss it. I shoot beach scenes - nothing better than with

the shift! So I can control the foreground, as I need it. I agree, for

very high buildings it is not that great because of the focal length.

But you just move more back. If you can't, switch lenses; the 45 and

go in extremes. I do dupe most of my slides and I find this lens

sharp enough even to blow it up a bit. Often I have to limit my lenses

when I go on a long trip. If I choose to take my Pentax, then I choose

the shift and the 165 LS or the 200 .

The LS is very sharp. It is a great lens and very useful, if you use

fill in flash.

 

I also had the Mamiya 75 shift. I took it with me on a few trips, but

then sold it, it is just too heavy and very slow, because the lens

shutter has to be cocked separately. The lens is great, but only when

you go to an assignment preferable in you car and then back. Not a

lens, which you drag around the world like I did. Also the Filtersize

of 105 mm bothers me a bit, because I can not find any filter for it.

So I had to cut gelatin filters and stick it in. The Pentax takes 82

mm. It shifts 20mm in all directions. It has 12 clicks. There is no

vignetting of the lens, even if you but filters on. You see it getting

dark when you shift because of the mirror. It has NO influence on the

film at all- but on the lightmeter. Therefore you have to meter first

and then shift. The use of the manual aperture you get used to very

fast. This is on the 67 manual camera. I do not know, how it performs

on the 67 II.

Because I want to trim down in weight, I bought a Mamiya 7. This

camera is absolutely great, but I miss one thing: a shift lens. I use

it virtually only with the 43mm and the 65 mm. I had to change my

style of shooting with those lenses.

But the 43 is out standing in performance such as sharpness.

A word of caution: any way of putting a makeshift solution to your camera, will lower the quality of your photos. There was a Japanese Company making a shift adapter for the Mamiya, using large format lenses. But the minimum possible focal length was 90 mm.

So, I am better of with the 75 Pentax shift. And after all, I have done great cityscape shots with that lens. Buildings, Skylines etc. In order to photograph a building, you often you have 2 choices: either you can go further back, or you can go up somewhere or somehow. Just have to search for it.

Schneider makes - or used to make a 55 mm shift for the Rollei 6x6. I asked them, if they could adapt one to my Pentax. They replied, it would not be sharp enough on the edges. Because the lens is calculated for 6x6 Format only.

But if you need a wider lens with shift; the Plaubel used to make one, Alpha makes one (very expensive) and as far as I know Horseman as well. The Horseman uses a Rodenstock (I think 35 mm) which would be about 15mm WA in 35mm Format but how many mm you can shift with it, I would not know.

 

Dorian

[trevor_smithers]

Well, this has been an interesting discussion for me � so much so that I�ve now purchased the lens.

I�ve just had a test film returned and as most have pointed out the definition is excellent even at full shift. The only problem I had is the need to open up 2/3 to 1 stop when the lens is fully shifted � not really a problem as long as I remember to do it.

 

Regards to all Trevor S

[richard_reddy]

Greetings...

 

Thanks for this lively little discussion; I found it quite helpful.

 

Just got my 75mm Pentax shift lens today. Used, but you wouldn't think so.

Mint condition. Shueido Camera (eBay) sold me this item for 900 USD (a bargain!). Got it here from Taiwan in less than a week. (standing ovation!)

 

Few people want large format these days--I use it for my own enjoyment.

For commercial shoots, shifts are invaluable--by far the most common difficulty in image management. Tilts are nice too, but this kind of work really calls for a view camera.

 

If other visitors are curious, this is a phenomenal lens! The construction is

outstanding. It's very easy to use if you read the manual, available as a free download at the Pentax web site. It's a 9-element design with outstanding

optical quality--have yet to put images on film, but being an engineer and physicist with a background in optics, I can see how Pentax went to considerable toil in design and manufacture. Hats off! This lens is a real

beauty!

 

To echo a thought expressed above--where you don't have space to

back up, haul out the 55mm or 45mm focal lengths. The 67II is designed to be

used as a system, so one lens does not do everything. With a big 67 negative, there is generous room for cropping with the fixed focal lengths.

The 75mm shift delivers a moderate angle, for images with a natural perspective--where wide angle effects don't take over the image. It's exactly what I want!

 

Should I recommend all the 67 series wide angle lenses? You bet!!!

Wide angle lenses seem to be a weakness of my Canon 35mm equipment. Even the costly lenses have issues of distortion and aberrations, and construction of auto-focus lenses seems a little sucky to me. Greatly prefer using the Pentax for 90 percent of my wide angle subjects, or any subject that might be printed > 8x10.

 

Canon's 24mm TS-E is an exception to the rule. This is a real good lens,

with a few minor drawbacks. Small distortion at the edges is easy to get rid of if you crop the image--most clients wouldn't detect a problem. 28mm f/1.8

is also a superbly sharp lens, even at 1.8 The TS-E also incorporates tilts and rotation. It's the premiere wide angle lens for Canon users who are

not fond of auto-focus. A little heavy--but that's a good thing (sturdy construction!).

[richard_reddy]

One additional matter of interest; on the subject of system design...

 

Pentax 67II has an interesting flash setup; hot shoe grip + shoe mount flash, made for TTL metered strobe. It covers the 75mm focal length. Since interiors often have deep shadows, a dedicated strobe is useful. So is TTL (quick, accurate).

 

Since you're going to put the shift lens on a tripod anyway, 1/30th flash synch, and cable release--will do just fine. Contrast control and TTL modes will work with this lens.