What battery powered 2 light set up to use for wedding alter returns?

[russell_dean]

I am looking for a battery powered 2 stobe system to use for alter

returns at weddings. I would like to trigger this system with a

wireless radio trigger. Any suggestions on brand of systems,

umbrellas/softboxes, or other detailed information is appreciated. I

currently have a Nikon camera with a SB-28 flash. I would also like

to trigger my Nikon flash in conjunction with the other 2 battery

powered stobes that are on stands using radio triggers not slaves.

Can this be done in conjunction with the other two stobes?

[eric friedemann]

For tripping Nikon flashes and still shooting TTL (and it is optical):

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh3.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___201231___NISU4SG2___REG___CatID=1736___SID=F76D880BE70

 

If you are going to limit yourself to battery powered, I'd look at the Quantum Qflash for the almost nuclear power of the flash bursts. You could sync it with pocket wizards:

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh3.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___115280___QUQFX2___REG___CatID=0___SID=F76D880BE70___call=features#goto_features

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh3.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___168588___WIPWPT___REG___CatID=0___SID=F76D880BE70

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh3.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___168586___WIPWPR___REG___CatID=0___SID=F76D880BE70

[ted_lopez]

Hi, I have used Vivitar 283s on stands with slave units. I have also used Norman 200B units. They are 200 watt seconds at full power. I used them with the reflector painted a flat white. It gave a nice even light. Hope this helps.

[briany]

<i>wedding alter returns</i><br>

You mean to tell me that if I don't like her, I can just bring her back??

[james_bruno1]

I use two Quantum T2's with a Contax 645 for weddings. I trigger them with the Quantum 4i's. They have been fool proof now for years. I use the soft filter on the flash itself powered by the Quantum Turbo's. I even dedicate the flashes to my S2 with the Q12 modual. It is awsome.

Bruno

www.snapthepicture.com

[eric friedemann]

"I use two Quantum T2's with a Contax 645 for weddings. I trigger them with the Quantum 4i's. They have been fool proof now for years. I use the soft filter on the flash itself powered by the Quantum Turbo's."

 

The only reason I would recommend the Quantum Q flashes with the Q packs over the T2s that Bruno uses is the significantly greater guide number of the Qs with the Q packs.

[timberwolf1]

Your best solution is a Norman 200b (used) for about $175. It has a household plug for robust slave connection. Drop it on concrete, no problem. Vivitar 285s need a "flash foot one" to adapt to a HC connection. These are around $45. I have both, and Speedotron, and Lumedyne. Go with Norman 200b or 200c. Put a Lumedyne reflector on th Norman head for 1/3 stop more power. It will then be 200ws plus 1/3rd stop for 280ws. The Vivitar 283/285 is 100ws. I have 6 Norman 200b's. I have 6 Vivitar 283/285. A Morris wide slave is great for illuminating the vail. Radio slaves are a luxury. Control the crowd by letting them shoot first, then take over. Regular Wein slaves will work fine. Put your money in 2-3 Norman 200b's, put lead acid batteries in them, they stay charged for months unlike nicad. There are brackets to connect the 200bs to a stand, or lay it on th floor. Forget dedicated, plastic flashes. Go for power and toughness. It can save you.

[eric friedemann]

The Quantum Q flashes are TTL and with the Q battery pack they put out 400ws. In the large open areas that are churches, 400ws beats the crap out of 200ws.

[timberwolf1]

The Norman 200b can go to 280ws or 320ws by simply changing the reflector to

Lumedyne, and then using a straight cord head cut to 4-5'. Go to "Flash Power

modifications" now posted for my other tips.

 

On a Norman 400b, which is 400ws, this unit can put out 640ws if the same simple

changes are made. This is power delivered at the flash meter, not advertising.

 

But the reality of usage at an altar dicates that this power is not going to be used

anyway. The background needs to be balanced with the light on the subject. Most

altars have a background wall only 15 feet from the edge of the altar. Therefore, the

background should be illuminated with only 50-100ws in many cases, with two units

illuminating a 1/2 secton of the rear wall. The light on the subject should be

effectively 50-100ws. Given losses in an umbrella, you would bounce 400ws into the

umbrella to get 50-100ws on the subject. This is a ballpark figure with distances not

described.

 

Therefore, you would only use 400ws through an umbrella, or only used for the

group shots of the entire party.

 

To blast a person up close with 400ws is unnecessary.

 

The Normans have flash flash durations, as well.

 

TTL is not necessary for backgrounds or umbrellas. Used as a slave, you really

should be using a handheld flash meter to adjust your ratios exactly.

 

So, my suggestion is to save your radio slave money (about $600 or more) and put it

into 2 Norman 200b's (used), purchase a flash meter of good quality, and live with

light triggered slaves for a while. For the expense of the radio slaves alone, you

could have 2 Norman 200b and a nice flash meter. If you want more power, just

mount two 200b heads parallel to each other on a flat bar. $350 buys 2 power

packs with heads. New, the Normans would be around $1,000 apiece in 200c

models. So buy used. Parts are available from Holly Enterprises in Sepulveda (818)

-phone.

 

You can easily re-sell the Normans. Go for toughness. The quantums are plastic

dittys. Once you crack the case, good luck on repair. The Normans can be dropped

on concrete, stepped on by 200 lbs men, kicked across the floor 20 times, and still

they work. You can even re-paint them with black paint to hide scratches. On a hot

day, the Norman cases can be opened for ventilation. No other pack can do this. Try

doing 200 shots in 105 degree weather. At this point, you will worrY ABOUT

TOUGHNESS

[eric friedemann]

"The Normans can be dropped on concrete, stepped on by 200 lbs men, kicked across the floor 20 times, and still they work."

 

I told the doctor I broke my leg in two places. He told me to quit going to those places.- Henny Youngman

 

If you have some sort of physical condition that makes you prone to dropping equipment on concrete or stepping on it- and you weigh 200 lbs.- you'd do well to pick a line of work that doesn't involve the use of thousands of dollars in breakable equipment.

 

I weigh 225 lbs. and no one has ever described me as graceful or cat-like. Yet, in almost 25 years of shooting weddings, I've never broken a light or battery pack.

 

The Quantum Qs are TTL and the Normans aren't. This makes the Qs a better choice to shoot on a bracket after the formals are done.

 

And, if I was looking for flash equipment that I could treat like cheap luggage, it wouldn't be battery-powered. For weddings, I use 750ws Calumet Travelites and I've never had a problem finding a wall socket.

[james_bruno1]

now I am just gonna stop shooting weddings. :) They can all work. Depends on what you want. Rent different rigs until you find one that suits you. I use the T2 digital's with the turbo because of the light spectrum for digital cameras which is the majority of my work (fashion) I just use them for weddings cause I can't afford to go out and buy another rig just for that. Yeah, it is great to have more power however in a wedding, I want to get as close to the ambient light as possible and yet be about to stop down enough to keep the group shots in focus. I don't even come close to popping at full power. So for this purpose the guide number increase doesn't interest me. I still rent lights when I am doing a shoot outdoors and have a special purpose and the T2's would be sufficient.

Bruno

[timberwolf1]

Eric has gone on a silly tirade. Flash units which don't operate because they are

cracked place the whole job at risk. Flash units do hit door jambs and get lots of

movement through obstacles. Since the user wanted a battery powered strobe

system, Eric gave him an AC recommendation. What? An AC system demands that

you bring along extension cord, heavy cord, in addition to reach that wall socket.

 

To see a simple solution, go to Benjamin Cromwell's portfolio and see some pictures

of altar returns that he accomplished with 2 Vivitar 285's. These units can be placed

in a Photographer's vest and held by guests if need be. They are 100ws units. With a

"Flash Foot One" replacing the hotshoe plastic base, you have a Household

Connection that is similar to an AC plug. You could plug in a wireless here.

 

I have both Vivitars, Norman 200b's, Speedotron studio packs, and Speedotron Force

10 mono lights for use at the altar. So what do I like for a fast set up and quality?

The Norman 200b units. The studio packs will give me softer light, but I have to be

willing to lug them into the church. The Normans are powerful and I can use 10"

reflectors on them if I chose. The vivitars are handy and adequate. The mono lights

are lightweight, and have the power of the studio pack (almost), but I need an AC

outlet.

 

There are times when there just aren't those few minutes to setup a complete studio

lighting AC situation at wedding altars. The Normans always work well, and recycle

quickly, 1-2 seconds.

 

Timber Borcherding timberborcherding

[eric friedemann]

�Eric has gone on a silly tirade.�

 

Timber, stop giving lighting equipment recommendations. You couldn�t properly light a subject if your life depended on it:

 

http://skhclients.home.mindspring.com/TimberB/inBride01.html

 

http://skhclients.home.mindspring.com/TimberB/inGroom01.html

 

http://skhclients.home.mindspring.com/TimberB/outdoorCouples01.html

[sameer1]

Ouch! This thread just got ugly! Eric, that was out of line and very harsh!

[twmeyer]

I use a Lumedyne kit that does this stuff on manual setting just fine. I sync with the Quantum 4i radio, but would prefer Pocket Wizard or maybe the new digital syncs from Calumet. I like Westcotts Halos for modifiers. They set up like an umbrella but are contained like a softbox and one wil light a big group. An auto module will let one of my power packs self adjust... but if you want auto power output, the Quantum units are pretty cool, but way pricey. The X2 will give up 400 ws and the T2 is much less than that. As Timber alludes, sometimes 400ws will never be needed. But I'd rather have too much than too little, and that's why I use Lumedyne. I have two packs and one booster that lets me run 4 heads at 200ws each, or 1 head at 800ws and another at 200ws. I have a photo on my (photo.net) personal page that shows two configurations of these kits in their bags. My website has an "Events" link that shows alot of work done with one head in a Lumedyne pack (all the party stuff and most of the Wedding work).<p> Your SB28 fires a pre-flash that may ruin an optical sync when you use it in TTL. Change to manual and it should work fine.<p>Hey Eric, Timber may be an ego maniac, but I think you live in a glass house, dude. You haven't shown us the lighting skills that might qualify you to be throwin' stones... t<div></div>

[bill_mcfadden]

"Confusion is my state of mind. Or something like that!"

 

I figure there are a ton of issues you have already considered. However, some additional info might help the experts advise you which lighting system(s) best suit your needs.

Will you need the Nikon flash for candid photos? How many people will be in the groups that you shoot. 2, 5, 30 people? How much time would you have to set up, shoot and take down the lights. Do you have a enough time to meter for proper exposure, or will most situations be get the shot and get out of the way situations! are the weight of lighting systems and the amount of room a limiting factor? The folks on this website can help you determine if two systems are the right approach. Back-up lighting system is critical.

(Murphy was an optimist!) I give you advise on which systems to buy but I'd have to stay at a Holiday Inn first.