bobatkins Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Just a bit of a heads up here. I was working with a new "multimedia, digital photography ready" HP Pavillion PC and had a small problem. I called their tech support line. After the usual annoying navigation through a voice controlled menus I was in the tech support queue. After 10 minutes of listening to a muzak versionof "white christmas" ...click ...disconected. So I call again, Same things. Annoying menu, annoying music, annoying wait ...click ...disconnected. So I call again, this time randomly banging keys on the key pad to make the auto menu fail and put me through to a human. Human promises to connect me to tech support. More playing of that &*^$#@ muzak, more waiting ....click ...disconnected. Once more, call, hit random keys, talk to human, put on wait list more $#@* muzak (white christmas and tequilla sunrise) ...click ...disconnect. One more call, SOLEMN PROMISE to connect to tech support, 35 minutes of %$#$@% white christmas. I didn't wait for the click. So, HP have redefined SUCK when it comes to PC tech support. If you're thinking of buying an HP pavillion PC, I strongly suggest you try calling their tech support line first and see if you ever get any. Could save you tearing out your hair at a later date. Fell free to pass this message along to anyone you know at HP. Either nobody there cares or nobody who need to know knows what's going on. I wasted 90 minutes on them. Think twice before you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl smith Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Thanks Bob. I've never had to call them but I've had experience with Canon, Dell and Apple and all were among the best I've called. Dell was the best of the 3, wait was very short and the help actually helped. But you do have to be on the lookout for any of the Indians who doesn't speak clear english. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 I'm sure different HP divisions have different support centers. I got decent help from HP when I had a scanner problem. They couldn't actually fix the problem, but they tried to be helpful and they weren't too hard to reach (though that was a couple of years ago). Hitachi were pretty good with help on a laptop and Compaq were OK when I called them about a pretty old PC of theirs. Maybe HP were having a bad day, but it was a REALLY bad day and whoever picks the muzak on hold they use should be dragged out of the building and shot at dawn. They also need a decent phone system that doesn't drop lines and an automated annoucement of approximate wait time. Someone should also tell them that the 17th time you hear you can get tech support on their web site when you've been on hold for 30 minutes makes you want to reach down the phone and take the announcer firmly by the throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen hazelton Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 We had an HP scanner that we really liked. We upgraded to Windows XP, and never could get the scanner to run under it, although it was supposed to. Even downloaded the 58MB driver program over the dial-up line. No go, no one there knows what to do. Their website offered two or three different "fixes", the last one being: Discard the HP software and use whatever drivers come with Windows XP. We just bought a new (non-HP) scanner. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_davidson Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I bought an HP 5000 large format printer. We operate in a Mac environment and had excellent performance under OS9. We switched to OSX 10.2.4 and it will not print properly in that environment. We have downloaded the "native" drivers, talked to tech support ( paid money since we are out of warranty) and still can not get a saleable print using OSX. We have to print out of 9 on a different machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_ Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 1. They are idiots making computers. Back when I got my film scanner, I quired HP by E-mail to identify the Windows 2000 'generic' scanner driver file. My goal was to rename the driver supplied with the film scanner so it would load itself upon starting the computer. HP's answer: contact Microsoft -- it is a software problem. Loop back to 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Bob; I gave up on tech support on PC's long ago. Our "multimedia, digital photography ready" HP Pavillion PC " has XP-pro; and will ;lock up about 30% of the time when it goes into "sleep" mode. It has all the updates downloaded; even todays. When it locks up; no keystroke will unlock it. Pushing the power off for 5 to 10 seconds will force an off; and a reboot gives "a serious error has occured" the online report to microsoft scans the system; and recommends checking a few dll's; in the bowels of XP. Our rev level of the dll's is the correct ones; then it recommends contacting the CD writer's troubleshooter; which again ends in a no fix trail. My dumb as slice bread fix; is to increase the sleep mode time delay; to several hours; so that a phone call or customer doesnt force a lockup. My XP friend swears that XP never locks up. Ours is abit robust at multitasking; but gets a solid F in the power off wakeup lockup's. After alot of phone calls to Hp; Microsoft; and web searches; I grew tired of XP's totally lame lockup; which sometimes requires unplugging the machine. After the punting; ie radically increasing the sleep/power mode ; the problem of lockups is gone. Our WIN 98SE boxes usually never lockup when awaking from energy saving shutdowns. After buying a hundred dollars worth of XP books; many calls; and many settings tests; I must conclude the XP crew or HP or both ; have a real flaky "energy saver" mode. It is way cheaper for me to leave the darn computer on always; than mess with the endless lockups; "serious error messages"; systems scans; and general waste of ones time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Most all computer support for PC's is a mess. There is alot of weird poorly done systems; poor software; and few dumb users too. I still think my HP was/is a good value. My "fix" of not letting the computer to go into sleep mode is not probably what HP/Microsoft/a purist would recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 My brief experience of XP (Home) is that it sucks too. The damn thing seemed to be spending all it's time checking itself and chatting with someone somewhere over my dialup connection. Just sitting there with no browser running it was downloading megabytes of something and uploading slighly smaller amounts of information. I suppose it was getting updates? Who knows. I certainly didn't and it didn't offer to tell me what it was doing. When I eventually figured how to turn off all the automatic crap, it speeded things up significantly. I'd seriously conssidered loading W2K over it, but the inevitable driver problems made me think better of it. No doubt I've done something unbelievably stupid, since Microsoft knows much better then I do what the PC should spend it's time doing, but at least it runs at a decent speed now. If I want an update I'll ask for one. I suppose at some point it will refuse to work untill I let it chat with Microsoft again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Bob ; an customer of ours has an XP box; with an external multicard flash USB reader. They somehow had it set up wrong; or improper; so that when then plugged in the reader; several of their drive letters would change by one letter. The added the USB reader; then another HDA later. They also use the USB fornt port for several other devices. Because if the driver letter changing with each USB plugin of the reader; XP barfed. It thinks they are messing placing the OS on another computer; or making too many changes. Their computer got certain features crippled; and that had to consult Microsoft with a patch; which later died. They they went out and removed XP; and added back WIN2000; and did the horrible new driver search. They ended up getting several new devices; NIC; etc; because of the driver goose chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majid Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 HP's PC division (as opposed to their printer and Unix workstation divisions, after all, doesn't Photo.net run on HP Unix?) is well known to suck. They were even worse rated than Compaq, who managed a 25% dead-on-arrival rate when my company ordered its first PCs. Merging two also-rans isn't a prescription for success, and it's not surprising Dell is leaving them in its dust (although Dell's support reputation has also taken a hit in the last couple of years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith_kanoun Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Hey Bob - I know what HP would have told you had you actually gotten to talk to a tech support person, so I'll save you some time. Ready? "You need to reload everything from the restore disk." Isn't that most computer companies' standard (useless) tech support answer for any problem that isn't solvable by such questions as "is your computer plugged in" and "is your monitor hooked up to your computer"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_smeaton Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Thanks Bob, but you're a month too late for me! I just bought one and had an issue so I called. I was a little more patient than you however :-), and waited about a hour and 15 minutes for a tech rep. When I finally got through, without spending more than 2 minutes with me, he told me to call a different number!!! So I did.....the number he gave me was for 3rd party equipment help....with a minimun of $30 charge to speak to a rep!! Needless to say I was pretty mad after that. Too make a long story somewhat short, it WASN'T A THIRD PARTY ISSUE!! The idiot jumped to that conclusion however and wasted alot of my time. I never called them back and won't ever do it again!! Lesson learned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_austin Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Sadly, poor technical support for increasingly complex systems is an unavoidable fact of life these days. The razor-thin margins on most PC systems and peripherals leaves a very small reserve for tech support. Most manufacturers have exported their customer service operations to lower labor cost locales like India, so language issues compound the problem. In the Windows enviroment particularly, it's impossible to guarantee that every possible combination of hardware and software will work together. Sometimes, the only solution is to accept that the latest add-on you purchased just won't work in your current system as configured, all manufacturers' claims to the contrary. When installing a new card in one of my PC's I've also found that the order in which the cards are installed and recognized by the system can make the difference between a successful and a failed upgrade: some cards need a particular resource (i.e. IRQ) to work, while others are more flexible and will use the first free resources available. It often boils down to trial and error to discover which cards are the most demanding, and to install those first. It's a time-consuming, iterative and frustrating process, but it often works. Ultimately, if I do need technical support, I use e-mail whenever possible (particularly for "small" problems, as Bob described his). That way, I don't waste any time on hold, I don't have to divine my way through automated call routing systems, and I don't have to repeat myself to multiple technical support "professionals" as I work my way up the issue escalation ladder. I've also found that documenting my problem in writing causes me to think through the issue more logically and thoroughly, and this process occasionally gives me a brainstorm that enables me to resolve the issue on my own. Good luck, everybody! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.W. Wall Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Keith, you're right! My son was an HP telephone support tech a few years ago. My recollection is that most of the support consisted of the tech following preset menus and reading an answer off the screen. If that didn't help, basically they were trained that the standard answer was what you suggested - reload everything. He did what he could to do better than that for his customers, but it was limited because he had to keep up his call rate. Anyway, he (voluntarily) came away from that job believing that HP computers were junk with basically no effective support. We happily use Dells and have had great support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_eaton Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 It's a common industry complaint right now that HP is under-going the most rapid decent in terms of customer and product support in the history of the PC industry. All my IT buddies are dropping HP as fast as they can and experiencing these support problems on the server level as well. Bad enough I'm stuck with mostly IBM, but at least their tech support isn't manned by somebody who learned the English language yesterday.I hate to pick on a specific manufacturer because they all have their darker points, but HP is now in morale free-fall due to cost cutting and trying to keep up with Dell, which will ultimatley fail and gut the company. It's sad to see what's happening to this once great company because it's really not necessary. Hindsight being 20/20, I plead with everybody I know to avoid retail HP PC anythings. While not substantially worse in terms of quality than any other dept store PC, I've found 100-150 watt power supplies in Pavillions (bad), and this compounded with their declining tech support leads me to agree that they "suck". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphicjoe Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 HP used to be known for quality products and support, but no longer. It's sad to see a company let itself slide downhill. I used to swear by Dell; now I sometimes swear at them. About half of the time that I call tech support I am connected to a person who does not speak a version of English that allows us to communicate, which is frustrating for me and the tech support person. The real problem is that I doubt that any other company is much better, or even much different. Sad, but true. Cheers (?), Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william_bloodworth Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I went through all this too, with Dell. I had endless problems that tech support just couldn't solve. They kept trying the same thing over and over. They had me reformat my hardrive and reload everything from scratch 4 times! Still, same problems. I bought Scott Mueller's book Upgrading and Repairing PCs. After digesting most of that, I built my first computer. Now, I build my own and upgrade as needed. So far, the ones I've built have been absolutely problem free. The oldest is now 2 years of age. Building your own may sound a little over the top at first, but it has sure saved me a lot of time and headaches in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe heiliger houston, tx Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I am with William!!! I service PC's everyday as a vocation, and Dell is by far the best at Customer service.... (If you can understand them) Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_austin Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I concur with William Bloodworth: it really isn't difficult to assemble a PC these days; the hardest part is deciding on the component list from a vast array of choices. Very different from the limited options in "name brand" PCs. Upgrading is MUCH easier with a generic box, also, because their cases and motherboards are compatible with many more options than the branded machines. As for HP, I have two of their laptops with Intel SpeedStep CPUs, and the CPU speed change when switching between battery and AC or when coming out of standby mode just stopped working on both of them. HP's tech support was diligent but unsuccessful. I've purchased a long series of HP laser and inkjet printers; last year I bought a Canon inkjet and scanner on separate occasions, just because they seemed best suited for my purposes. When I bought the Canon 10D this year after an intensive 10D / Nikon D100 comparison, I was happy to have the other Canon products, although owning them truly didn't influence my 10D decision. (I'm assuming that using all Canon products in my photographic workflow can only help improve color consistency; I may be mistaken, but it can't hurt...) Anyway, Canon would have to get a lot worse, and HP a lot better, before I bought another HP peripheral. If only Canon made PCs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Jon; a customer of ours has a 100Mhz Pentium computer and monitor; with the Canon logos on the hardware; and during the startup menu. Canon monitors are moptre commmon than Canon PC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl smith Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I've seen a Canon laptop, it was an oldie. Pentium something or other (P1 that is). But the cool thing was it had a printer built in. It came floating through my department last year and our chair had no idea what to do with it. It's probably been tossed by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul beiser Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Hello everyone, I work for HP (not in the PC business) and I really appreciate all of the great feedback and comments, and will do my best to find the appropriate people in HP to show them all of the feedback here, and see what I can do to help things improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Paul; I have a HP 200B Audio Oscilator ; I got it about 10 years ago; for 20 bucks; at the TRW ham radio swapmeet; in El Segundo; CA. It worked when first plugged in; and still works fine today. It was made in the 1940's; or late 1930's. The model 200B was the model with the changes required by Disney; for the movie Fantasia; released in 1940. The <ahref+http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/museum/earlyinstruments/0008/0008sixviews.html"><b>HP 200B</b></a> was used at Disney starting about 1938/1939. The first HP made item was the <a href=" http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/museum/earlyinstruments/0002/0002history.html"><b> HP 200A.</b></a><BR><BR>I own about 3 dozen HP pieces of test gear; all is of excellent quality. I didnt think that HP should have merged with Compaq. The prior spinoff of the HP test equipment was given a horrible assine name; Agilent. All the wonderfull robust equipment group is given this horrible name; like the old name was "Fluke" :) or something. I guess today HP means inkjet sales; printers; and PC's at Walmart; and the Office box stores. As an Engineer; Walter and David were big heros to us; who made very fine equipment; of outstanding workmanship; and treated Enginners well; and paid a decent buck. My biased thoughts are that Carly's throwing out of the all of "HP way" would bring me discord working at HP. My once extremely high respect for HP products has been reduced alot. When one buys an HP product; and it has problems; one might never want to buy their products again. If the problem is there the life of the product; the consumer will be bugged each time it is used; and be annoyed. HP needs to try to again to make decent hardware; and use feedback from field failures; to improve the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 <a href=" http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/museum/earlyinstruments/0008/index.html">HP 200B</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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