craig_dumesny Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Hi guys. I have been using my M6TTL now for quite some time and love her to bits, however, I have a rather strange question regarding the framlines that I was unable to find an answer to after doing several searches. I have been consistently getting crooked horizons even after astute framing and being consciously aware that previous rolls of film have also shown crooked horizons? I shoot tranny, have used both 35mm and 50mm lenses and have even lined up the top frameline perfectly with a horizontal line just to prove I'm not crazy. By the way, I have been shooting professionally for some years with both 35mm and 120 formats so I'm pretty confident it's not my technique that's lacking, and besides, when I borrow the wife's P&S my horizons are all perfectly level even with that. Next step will be to use a spirit level on both a test target and the M6 but in the meantime would any of you knowledgable people have any quick ideas. Is it possible to have mis-aligned framelines within the viewfinder? Thanking you all in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerry_szarek Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 The frame lines would ALL need to be off (the frame lines are all on a single piece of material), either a spirit level or a framing level (use base of camera, mounted to a tripod) should work. Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerry_szarek Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 The frame lines would ALL need to be off (the frame lines are all on a single piece of material), either a spirit level or a framing level (use base of camera, mounted to a tripod) should work. Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_collier2 Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I have heard of it before but only once before. Try using a level first and see what the results are. You could also remove the back and check what you are getting at the film plane. If it is the camera, send it in for adjustment with a very detailed description of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_. Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 <<I have been consistently getting crooked horizons even after astute framing and being consciously aware that previous rolls of film have also shown crooked horizons>> Craig, you have this problem because you are misusing your Leica. It was designed for candid low-light street photography of people at maximum aperture with the entire background of OOF bokeh. Leica's designers did not intend for anyone to photograph a horizon so you have no right to complain. And please post some images, we'd like to ridicule them. Sorry Craig, had to get that out. I'm sure your technique is fine, I've never used a spirit level and my horizons come out straight 100% of the time. It is possible for the frame mask set to be misaligned. Are the framelines parallel to the sides and top of the rangefinder patch (there's no way I can think of that could be misaligned since it's formed by the window cut into the top plate)? If they are, then I'd look at the shutter crate itself. Is the film gate parallel to the guide rails, and to the edge of the top-plate? How far askew are your horizons...if it's significant it should be obvious in one or the other of the above tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Craig: You said your horizon is consistently off, but you didn't say whether it is consistently off in the same direction. Is the right end of the camera consistently low? Or the left side? Or does it vary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles barcellona www.bl Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Maybe a small wedge under the heel of the lower foot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_dumesny Posted September 24, 2003 Author Share Posted September 24, 2003 Rob F. The skew is consistent, left up. It's not much but you can see it even when viewing slides on the lightbox without a loupe. The skew is also evident when I hold the camera vertically and always the same way. I'll have a really close look at how the frame lines line up with all your valuable tips and will let you all know the outcome. In all seriousness I hope that it's me causing this error and not my Leica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Well, since it's consistently the same way I imagine the problem is in the camera. Your plan to test with the camera on a tripod and using a spirit level, sounds foolproof. The lens axis should of course should be at right angles to the test target, and centered on it. I have more trouble getting level horizons, and otherwise achieving critical framing, with the M than with an SLR; but not to the extent you are describing. I think I have a tendency to hold the right end of the camera lower than the left, unless I'm being careful. But again, it's not so consistent as you are describing. So let us know what you come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_b. Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 It's happened to me! It was indeed the frameline mask assembly that was off. In my case it was because it had been replaced (fungus in my M4) with a newer one from I guess an M4-2. It didn't fit right, so the technician nudged it over a bit, which threw it off horizontally. Shot a whole trip to Michigan like that and was pissed. Send it to Leica or if DAG or Sherry have the jigs to check it, they do good work. PS a brand new 24mm Leica finder was off in a similar way. $140 for a voigtlander BL finder and I was back in buisiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameron_sawyer Posted September 26, 2003 Share Posted September 26, 2003 Isn't RF photography fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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