Has anyone made their own ULF film holders?

[john_gerndt1]

I am searching for a way to make my own 14x17 film holders. I

can then make a camera back to match them and work my way

forward from there. I had a good design formed but got caught

up short when I could not get a hold of sheet aluminum for the

film plane/support (at least not at much under $1/square inch!).

Can someone recommend a material or design I could easily

obtain materials for? I have a pretty good wood shop and skills

to match, should I go to all wood construction? Plastic seems

like it would create static problems. Help?

 

John Gerndt

[alex_hawley]

I think I would recommend staying with wood John. Two other problems with aluminum besides the cost. First, you will inevetibly need some metal cutting machine tools. Second is getting the black finish to adhere. Regular spray paint doesn't adhere too good. Commercial aluminum coatings are typically an electrostatic and/or chemical process. Not having the paint stick will especially bothersome on the dark slide.

 

Only draw back to wood may be the dark slide will have to thicker than an aluminum would be. But, I've never seen an all-wood film holder so can't say with any hands-on credibility. Good luck!

[john_kasaian1]

John, For high quality sheet aluminium, you might want to check out Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. I'm sure they have a website you can find in a search. They aren't cheap, but they might beat your price---worth a try anyway. Boeing used to have a surplus store in Washington State with really good prices for all kinds of delightful stuff. Perhaps someone in the Pacific Northwest could supply a link.----------Cheers!

[donald_miller1]

I wouldn't consider wood as the septum support or the septum itself because wood is too prone to dimensional variances from water inclusion (if I were building a holder). Aluminum can be anodized. There is a site (a search will locate it) that tells one how to anodize aluminum if desired. A film holder is actually more difficult to build then a camera. I wouldn't personally get involved in building them since I do not have equipment that will maintain tight enough tolerances. All indications are that Sandy King at S&S holders makes the best holder for the money in the market place today. Good luck.

[erik_ryberg]

John,

 

You might take a look at the book Primitive Photography. Alan Greene, Primitive Photography (Boston: Focal Press) 2002.

 

He describes making film holders and cameras.

[c_p_goerz]

There are over 100 different machine set ups invloved in making

holders. As someone mentioned making a camera is easy(just

look at W*$ner etc) how many people actually make holders??!!!

You may want to try Alan Brubaker at www.filmholders.com, I

have some of the first holders he ever made and ten years later

after the abuse I dish out they are still beautiful and functional.

 

CP Goerz.

[jorge_gasteazoro4]

Give Sandy King a holler and save yourself the aggravation. Although not cheap his holders are not as expensive as the AWB or Wisners holders and they are well made. If there is anything wrong with them Sandy will take care of you no questions asked. My holders developed some light leaks, and Sandy asked me to send them all back so he could repair them since they were an older version. Since I am in Mèxico this was out of the question (shipping would have killed me) so Sandy made new light traps for me and shipped them at no expense to me with detailed instructions on how to repair the holders.

 

If I was to build a camera I would just get his holders and build it around them. Good luck, and let us see your camera when you are done...

[john_gerndt1]

Thanks to all for the assistance! You all give generously of your

knowledge.

 

It seems like it is a lot to ask of myself to build ULF film holders.

I will do the reading and make the contacts suggested. when I

DO get to the taking of pictures I will do a posting of how it turned

out. Maybe I can give something back.

 

John Gerndt

[tracy_storer1]

Hi John, I have seen plastics and Phenolic sheet used for septums and

darkslides. If you do a websearch for "phenolic sheet" you will find a couple of

suppliers. For those who want to take a shot at building stuff, (holders or

otherwise) "onlinemetals.com" has a variety of offerings. (I think my 2'x3'x1/16"

aluminum sheet was $18, but shipping was another $18, still, that's $6 a

square foot, not bad) There is also a "camera makers forum" not as easy to

use as this one, but all about building concerns.

http://rmp.opusis.com/pipermail/cameramakers/

[michael_kadillak6]

I guess the point John is not wheither you can do it, (because I have no doubts that you most certainly can) it is how much time and resources is it going to take to work out the bugs to the degree that you can take razor sharp 14x17 images with them day in and day out. Why did S&S decide to get in the business? Probably because there was a niche that their own professional experience indicated could be effectively filled. In other words, the time and tooling necessary to learn to produce a fine but complex product like a ULF film holder would be proportional to the financial reward they are rightfully due for taking the risk.

 

The sunk cost of several (you can never own to many) high quality S&S film holders is an investment toward the real net result - ULF images. Spend your time out using your camera and challenge yourself in the image making realm. Just my $0.02.

[james_chinn]

I have built double holders to go with my 11x14. Basically a plastic frame, with a groove cut to hold the darkslide. The film itself lays on the bottom of the box with a 1/8th inch stainless steel frame that is hinged on one side lays on top of the film. It is spring loaded and exerts pressure on the film to keep it flat and in place. A thin neoprene curtain provides a double light baffle for the darkslide. Overall thickness is 1/2" or about the same as an 8x10 holder. Even with having a specialty plastics shop cut and mill the pieces, it is a fraction of the cost of a new holder. Weight is less than standard 11x14 holders by a few ounces. I think I could probably make one lighter with wood frame and plastic darkslide and center but I don't know how sturdy it would be.

 

Since my camera is custom built, the back and film holder were designed together. If I ever come across a cheap or damaged standard 11x14 holder I could use for precise measurments, I would adapt my holder design to fit standard 11x14 backs.

[sandy_king]

I have to admire anyone who has the skill and determination to make a film holder. It is more complicated than one would think, but still feasible for someone with excellent wood-working skills, and the the proper tools. Ultimately the decision to embark on such project is one of priorities, or tensions between doing the various things that we want to do. I am a photographer who also loves to make things so I well understand the desire to make such a thing, and know the tension of priorities.

 

However, for what is worth, assuming that your most important objective is actually making good negatives and prints, I would recommend that you buy a commercially made 14X17 film holder and build your camera around it. It is really with the camera that you can save a lot of money by building your own, and the level of skill needed to build an attractive and functional camera is quite a bit less than what is needed to make a film holder. Granted, you are probably not going to make a camera that is as nice as a Wisner or Canham, but bear in mind that a Wisner or Canham of this size will cost around $5-7K, and your cost will be primarily time. Have a look at some of the camera building web sites for design ideas.

 

Also remember that there are ANSI standards for 14X17 film holdes, in contrast to all of the other ULF sizes, except 11X14 of course. I will be happy to provide you with these standards if you want them.

 

Finally, a good source for phenolic plastic of the type needed for your septum and dark slide is McMaster Carr. Go to their web site and do a search for the material they market as Garolite.

 

Sandy King

[j.w.]

Great question, John. The neat thing about building your own camera back and holders is that you don't have to match anyone elses standards or measurements. Its your own personal design standard.

 

I've dabbled in this over the years. 8x10 and 5x7, so technically its not ULF, but the principle holds. My rough-design for a 5x7 camera used black foam core for the camera box and also for the film holder. I had to make a special view screen that was inserted like the holders do, then removed and replaced by the holder when ready to take the shot. However, this was experimental; I wouldn't recommend foamcore for a working field camera ... unless you could somehow water proof it.

 

My "permanent" design is going to use aircraft grade plywood, available at hobby shops. The stuff I'm interested in is about 1/8" thick, has 5 laminates, and can be cut using a fine-tooth modeller's saw, or even scored on both sides with a razor knife and then "snapped", then the middle ridge sanded flat. I actually recommend the later method for cutting this material, as you don't end up with any chinks out of the outside surfaces like you would if using a saw.

 

The film holder will have four layers: back piece, thin sheet metal "window" for film plane, plywood window with plywood dark slide, then top plywood window. Total thickness should be 3/8" plus the thickness of the sheet metal layer.

 

I would design the holder such that the film can be inserted from the front, with the slide removed. The film is gently curved such that the bottom and top edges slide under the metal windows's edges, then the film is slid to the left to go under the window's side edge, thus providing support on 3 sides for the film. This simplifies having to design a complicated system of parts requiring a flap be opened for the film to slide in from the side. Front loading is simpler with homemade designs.

 

You may also want to consider an additional layer of thin sheet metal on the side of the holder facing the camera. This prevents wear down the road between film holder and camera back.

 

I would use JB weld epoxy in constucting the holder. It cures a dark gray color. Use wood filler to fill in any gaps around the edges of the holder, then paint inside and out flat black.

 

For the dark slide, use the 1/8" wood. Ensure enough gap in the slot so when its painted flat black its doesn't stick. Use black felt along both sides of the slot in the holder for a light seal.

 

For the source of thin aluminum for the film plane window layer, get the thin sheet aluminum from hardware stores. It feels flimsy when handled on its own, but when properly glued and clamped in place between the adjoining wooden layers using JB weld, it'll be plenty strong.

 

Finally, wood-burn your own logo to the backs of each holder as a custom touch.

 

Let us know how they come out.