Shuttering a Barrel Lens - shutter in front? optical concerns?

[lbi115l]

Hi. Sorry to be posting so much stuff lately but I have a few things

I'm thinking of doing. I was looking on SK Grimes' web site and

noticed the section on Packard shutters and that one could be mounted

in front of the lens. With a shutter large enough, no vignetting

would occur. I was wondering if anyone had heard of such a thing

being done with a normal shutter. Even better, is there a way that

one shutter could be used on multiple lenses? I know it's a budget

approach, but I'm curoius as to whether I could make it work.

 

I'd see if a local machinist (or myself) could thread the OUTER part

of the front of the lens (the only one I have so far is a Wollie with

no 'normal' internal thread) and then tap and thread an adapter to go

over this and in the shutter. I could then make more adapters for

different lenses. I could also make a filter thread adapter to go on

the other side of the shutter.

 

Do any of you very techincal people see anything wrong with this? I

know it could be a long shot, but I think it's worth a try.

 

If not, then does anyone know any good photographic machinists other

than Grimes, maybe in NY?

 

Thanks.

[david_goldfarb]

Yes, you can find old Ilex/Universal type shutters fitted with tubes and set screws for this purpose, but they'll only work for smaller lenses. They usually have a range of 1 sec. to 1/50 or 1/100, depending on size.

 

There is also the Luc shutter (I have one of these), that has a bulb and only one speed, like a Packard, but it's designed for front mounting on big lenses, like old portrait lenses.

[lbi115l]

David, have you written a book on LF photography? I run into your great advice so often, the book would take you less time.

 

The old shutter with tube sounds like what I'd need, but too small. My only lens right now is a 21 1/4" Wollensak Apo-Raptar. It's pretty much a hige portrait lens. Are there any shutters that will work with this? Maybe I could get a tube made for a newer shutter. Or a series of tubes. Or just buy an older used shutter and get tubes made for it. A #3 Copal (new) is as expensive as a new lens for me.

[tracy_storer1]

Hi Jason,

I've used Luc and Packard shutters in front, no problems. With Ilex, Copal etc.

shutters you'll have to watch out for vignetting due to the thickness of the

shutter.

Also, to sate my curiousity...why NOT Grimes? Last I heard, (From them) they

were staying open for business. As far as I can tell, their rates for machine

work are right in line with every one else.

[lbi115l]

Well, Grimes is the best, and the only one I know of. So I don't know what anyone else's rates are. I thought it could use looking into, I'm trying to do this low-budget. As to vignetting, I'd just use a GIANT shutter. The largest I could find.

[david_goldfarb]

S. K. Grimes will charge a fair and reasonable price. I suppose if you had a friend who was a machinist you might find something cheaper, but the advantage of going with someone who handles photographic machining is that they will have a better idea of your goals and will have tables of data on lenses and shutters handy as well as experience in dealing with common problems, and will be more likely to get it right the first time.

 

Is the Apo-Raptar a portrait lens? I would suspect it's a process lens, designed for sharp reproduction of flat objects or possibly even an enlarging lens.

 

If you go to www.skgrimes.com, there are some tables describing the maximum diameter of various shutters. You might be able to fit an Ilex #5 in front of the Apo-Raptar, but if that's the case, it would be better just to mount the shutter on a lensboard normally and get an adapter to front mount the Apo-Raptar to the shutter with the shutter behind the lens. Figure around $125 for such an adapter.

[lbi115l]

Yes, it's a process lens, but size-wise it's about on par with some of the older portrait lenses. Ok. I've heard about front mounting before, but I was wondering how much if the image could be cut off. Grimes' site says he's never done a regular shuttering with this lens. So if I did a front mount, it would cut off some of the image. The lens has coverage very far past 8x10", which is what I shoot. The dealer told me it would probably cover 11x14, and it doesn't run out of coverage with full movement on my Calumet 810N.

[david_goldfarb]

Well, I use a 19"/f:11 Apo-Artar (a similar lens) front mounted on an Ilex #5, and I don't run out of coverage easily on 8x10" or 11x14". If the 21-1/4" fits, it's probably a good bet.

 

Portrait lenses are actually typically larger than even these long process lenses, and they won't fit an Ilex #5 without sacrificing their maximum aperture, which is usually around f:4.5. Some may have come with big Studio shutters, but these are often in poor condition, so a Luc or Packard shutter is often the best alternative for a really large lens.

[dan_fromm2]

Um, Jason, you'd get more useful advice if you were more forthcoming about your lens' dimensions. How big is the thing? Rear threads OD, front of barrel's ID and OD?

 

As for using one shutter with multiple lenses, there's no reason not to. I screw the following lenses into an ex-MP-4 Copal #1 press: 210/9 Konica Hexanon GRII, ~ 200/7.7 Boyer, 4"/5.6 Enlarging Pro Raptar (good close up, terrible at distance, doesn't vignette), 100/6.3 Reichert Neupolar (close up only, the lens doesn't cover 2x3 at infinity), reversed 55/2.8 AIS MicroNikkor (> 2:1 only), and various of the MP-4 Tominon macro lenses including the 135/4.5. I shoot them all on 2x3 Graphics. I strongly doubt the Konica will cover 4x5 front mounted on a #1.

 

You'd probably be best off putting a big Packard at one end of your ApoRaptar. Which end doesn't matter.

[rob_tucher]

I use an old Sinar Norma shutter, so I get shutter speeds of 8 sec. to 1/500 or so, plus B and T, and I use lenses from 12" Goertz Dogmar to 760mm Nikkor on it. No vignetting as long as I stop down with the 760mm. All my lenses are on Technika boards (except the 760mm, which is on a Sinar) and I keep a Sinar to Technika adapter board in the shutter. I cut wooden lens boards for each of my cameras that take the Sinar shutter, since Sinar boards are smaller than Deardorf, etc., and I don't have to buy any shuttered lenses or have them shuttered.

[dick roadnight cotswolds]

On my two big lenses, the rear element is about 5 inches across, and I intend to use them for up to 57 or 617.

 

On my Novoflex 640 f9 (35mm) lens system, the apeture is about a foot behind the rear element:

 

do the large barrel lenses have a cross-over point where I could position a smaller shutter on an intermediate standard?

 

I have an Aero-Ectar 600 f6 and a Wray 900 f6.3.