What's wrong with this Camera

[mcrodgers2]

I recently acquired a used Minolta X-570 off of ebay and the bargain

price of $56 plus $12 shipping and handling.

 

Sounds like a steal but look at the photos I get! I've shot two

rolls so far and had each processed at different labs. I'm getting

some frames that are 1/3 to half black. Sometimes I'm getting bands

of overexposed film, sometimes frames that have part of another frame.

 

Something is obviously wrong with the camera. My guess is it's either

the shutter screwing up, light is leaking into the camera somewhere

and/or the film winding mechanism is hosed.

 

Is anybody familiar with these symptoms? Does anyone want to hazard a

diagnosis?

[mcrodgers2]

Here are some examples of what I'm getting. Mind you, many frames are just fine, but every roll so far out of two have several shots like these.

[mcrodgers2]

Okay...I guess I don't know how to upload photos in this forum.

 

To see examples of the problems shots from my Ebay X-570 go to this link:

 

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=305036

 

Anybody who's seen this before and knows what's wrong please contribute a theory.

[roto]

The second picture from the left looks like it's been badly cut/printed by the lab. It can happen.

 

The others show sign of a shutter problem. The X-570 has an horizontal shutter, so the banding is consistent with a malfunctioning shutter.

 

Dumb question: have you put fresh batteries in the camera? The shutter is electr-mechanical: empty or almost empty batteries might cause it to malfunction.

[minh_thai]

Doesn't look like shutter failure. That would create horizontal bands (along the long edge of the film). By any chance these frames are at the beginnings or ends of the rolls? There could be light leak as well, you might want to check the foam on the film door and replace it.

[mcrodgers2]

Thanks for the answer Robert.

 

The X-570 manual says that the "A" for auto or the "M" for manual mode LED indicator in the view finder should blink if the batteries are low.

No blinking, so I assume the batteries are okay.

 

Still that's no a bad suggestion. I will replace the batteries with new ones just to eliminate that possibility.

 

I've already eliminated that it's the lab, since I've tried two different labs. Likewise it's not the film, since I've tried two separate rolls of film. Also switched lenses, it's not the lens.

 

I've tried flash photography with the shutter set at 1/60 sec. So far no trouble with the flash shots, making me think it's the shutter because the exposures where controlled by the flash, eliminating the shutter. Only three flash shots tried but all where good.

 

I still also suspect light leaking into the body. The strip of felt near the hinge on the camera back is worn, and no longer soft and "fuzzy" as I suspect it should be. Why only some shots screwed up if this is the case? Maybe it's a function of how long that frame is exposed to the light "leak"? That is winded past the shutter but near the hinge. Different time between shots and ambient light conditions might make the difference.

 

On the second roll I shot the same shot at 1/1000, 1/500, 1/250, etc until 1/60th of a second. The black bands seem to happen at 1/1000 or 1/500 but inconsistently. On that same roll I've got good shots at those shutter speeds.

 

There is another symptom that I didn't notice before. The black band is consistently on the right side of the frame (horizontal, top side with Vertical framing, i.e. same side of camera). There is also a white band, not as pronounced, on the left side of the frame sometimes.

 

Anyway, my X-570 and I are going to the camera shop for a diagnosis.

I just want this community's opinion so I can tell if my repairman is up to snuff

[roto]

Minh: The bands would be parallel to the long edge of the picture if the shutter were vertical, but the X-570 has got a horizontal shutter.

 

By the way, if the camera back had a light leak, the bands would be white or fogged, not black.

 

However, having the camera checked is not a bad idea. I would also suggest that you verify the status of the rubber/sponge around the focusing screen (that is, where the mirror slaps when it's opened): in old cameras it tends to get stiff and crumbly. Your problems might be trivially due to some small bit of debris that's got into the shutter mechanism.

[radu_lupsa]

The second frame is obviously a bad cut at the lab. The third one I suspect that is also the lab's fault, as they leaked some redish light when getting the film out. I've got some of those ruined photos, too. Concerning the first and the last, seems to be a defective shutter that hangs somewhere and expose unevenly the picture.

[lemastre]

If your shutter moves horizontally, then the incompletely exposed

frames must be due to something other than a shutter problem.

It almost looks as though you put your finger in front of the lens.

 

The first thing to do is put the camera on a tripod, remove the

lens, open the back and peer through the shutter at a uniformly

lighted area. Then run through the shutter speeds and see

whether the shutter is moving smoothly and completely across

the opening. Repeat each speed a few times to see whether the

movement is consistent. I expect you will see no problem. I'd

have a technician check the shutter, seals, and mirror if the

problem persists.

[roto]

Excuse me, Keith, but why do you say that it can't be a shutter problem? I fail to follow your reasoning...

[lemastre]

You have reason to be puzzled by my assertion exonerating the

shutter. I was envisioning a horizontal slit moving from top to

bottom or vice versa. The horizontal movement you mention

actually describes a vertical slit moving from side to side. If that

is what your shutter does, then the partial exposures are totally

consistent with shutter malfunction. Finger misplacement is not

ruled out, but the shutter is more likely at fault.

[mcrodgers2]

Roberto Totaro has a good theory about the sponge on the focus screen.

The focus screen is full of black spots that look like bits from that sponge.

 

To settle a discussion about the shutter, it definitely moves horizontally. I am also certan that I did not get my finger in front of the lens. I couldn't have done that in so many shots.

 

I suspected the red bands might have been done at the lab, but labs are not usually that sloppy. To be sure I took it to another lab. Both places do their developing on side so I THINK it's not the lab.

 

I tried Keith Nichols idea of trying to watch the shutter. I think I saw the half of the shutter remain stuck.

 

Thanks everyone for your theories. I post what the repair shop says.

[jon_goodman1]

I agree with Keith. Put it on a tripod or at least open the film door and watch through the shutter as you walk upward through the speeds. It seems there is something wrong in the shutter, but the fault pattern is not consistent with what I would expect from the way this shutter "travels." The reddish band is definitely a light leak, but what or when it occurred is up for question. If you think you have a light leak, please consider the option of fixing that yourself...Minoltas are not difficult to re-seal at all. I sell a kit for the cost of a hamburger lunch that will fix that easily & quickly...contact me directly for info or go to E-Bay and search "by seller." My ID is Interslice. By the way, I've found this camera to have problems with (a) shutter capacitors (b) dirty/sticking shutter release electromagnets.

[jon_goodman1]

Ha, ha. DUH. Working on a Chinon, thinking Minolta, and having a "senior moment." Forget my comment on the shutter movement...the problem in your photos is very likely shutter timing.

[mike_elek]

Michael, the focal plane shutter uses two curtain. It appears that there is a timing problem one of the curtains.

 

As suggested, first try fresh batteries. Once you've changed batteries, perform this simple test:

 

Remove any film from the camera. Remove the lens, open the camera back and test each shutter speed by pointing the camera toward a bright light source. Start with 1 second and work your way up. In each case, you should see a rectangle of the film opening. If you don't see a full rectangle, note the speed setting. Make sure you test all shutter speeds.

 

The cause could be anything from a physical problem with the shutter assembly to debris in the shutter track.

 

If the light-blocking black foam has begun to deteriorate, it's possible that some of this gunk has made its way into the shutter assembly and is fouling the mechanism.

[lemastre]

The black foam in cameras seems to be a petroleum product

that begins turning back into crude oil as soon as it's exposed to

air. The crumbs that eventually flake off are extremely sticky and

will foul up anything they touch. If your foam is the least bit sticky

to the touch or shows crumbs, scrape it out and replace it. This

stuff is insidious because we pay little attention to it until spots

show up on film or in the shutter.

[alex_lofquist]

The pictures 1 and 4 are the same as I have had when my Leica (horizontal travel) shutters go bad. I believe that it is called "dragging", where the leading curtain drags and allows the trailing curtain to catch up, closing the slit. I think that the lab screwed up in the frame 2 cutting, though they might be mislead by a previous bad exposure frame. The third picture is a typical light leakage, perhaps through the cartridge slot. Was this frame #1 on the film? Otherwise you would want to check the light sealing around the back.

[christian deichert]

You mention that some of your frames were taken with flash; which if any of these are flash photos? Not to discount the rest of the hypotheses above, they may well be accurate, but if 1 and 4 are flash photos, problem may be that your flash and your shutter are not synched.

 

You are taking your flash shots at 1/60, right? Any faster and you will get shots like this, as 1/60 is the fastest speed at which the shutter is entirely open (from 1/125 and up, you're getting a moving slit, as the second curtain starts into the frame before the first curtain clears the frame).

[theorist]

I have two Minolta cameras. My old XG-M stopped advancing the film, and various repair places estimated over $100. I paid $150 for the camera six years ago, so I wasn't interested in paying that. So, I did a little hunting and I found Garry's Rapair Shop in Illinios. He repaired and cleaned my Minolta for a total of $48. When I recently bought a Minolta, I sent it to him for a complete cleaning and he replaced the light seals. You obviously have a different problem with your camera, but you may want to contact Garry. His website doesn't seem to be working properly, but his e-mail address is garrysrepair@yahoo.com. My guess is that he's seen your problem before and can tell you what needs to be repaired. He gives free estimates. As you can tell, I am a very satisfied and happy customer.

[theorist]

The site might work now. www.garryscamera.com

[mcrodgers2]

So far ALL shots I've taken with the flash are perfect. With the shutter set at 1/60 the strobe is determining the exposure, eliminating the shutter. More evidence it's the shutter.

 

To answer another question; No none of the shots posted are at the beginning or end of the roll. Mostly near the middle. I still think there is also a light leak. As I said before, perhaps the time between shots for the light to leak in and the brightness of the ambient light at that time is a factor. That could explain why some shots are okay. They may have been wound around the spool before the leak had any effect.

 

I think I have two symptoms from desegregating seals. One; a light leak and two; the seal debris has fouled the shutter. Like I said, there are black particles of something all over the focus screen.

 

I'm still waiting for a diagnosis from the shop. At $56 plus $12 S&H it might be worth my while to repair this camera depending on the price. It would cost me another $12 to send it back and get my $56 returned to me. The Ebay seller offered to refund my money if I send it back.

[ron c sunshine coast,qld,a]

Frames one and four are definitely shutter problems.They are reletively serious.Frame two indeed seems to be a lab mistake and frame three is a light leak from the hinge end of the door.I'd strongely recommend sending it back

[roto]

Michael, I would frankly send it back. By what I see and you say, it looks like you have to replace all the seals, clean the camera and check the shutter... I don't think it's worth it.

[mcrodgers2]

Just to close out the whole story; here is the diagnosis from the shop.

 

The light seals have deteriorated and need replacing and light is leaking in from the back. The seal near the focus screen (that contacts the mirror when it is up) is also deteriorating. Debris from this seal has created the spots on the focus screen.

 

The same debris or other debris (perhaps from the other seals) has fouled the shutter and it needs to be rebuilt.

 

The shop does all the above as it's "standard overhaul". It's the same price no matter what the problems. I believe a cleaning costs the same. I'm figuring that with an older used camera like the X-570, an overhaul would be needed soon anyway.

 

I'm fortunate in that the seller on Ebay has agreed to a full refund if I return the camera. At my suggestion he is also willing to refund much the cost of the camera if I decide to keep it.

 

I'm going to get it repaired. Adding up all my costs and subtracting the seller's discount, I'm getting a fair deal in my opinion. After the repair the camera should be �like new� according to the shop. The exterior is like new all ready. I've seen used X-570�s (bodies only) listed on the KEH website for quite a bit more and I'm getting a 50mm lens to boot, so all's well that ends well.

 

I'm going to keep the photo's I posted on line for the benefit of anyone else who reads this thread and has similar symptoms. I�d advise anyone buying cameras on Ebay to first ask the seller:

1. Have you tested the camera recently with a roll of film?

2. Has a repair shop looked at it? They usually do checkouts for FREE.

3. When was the camera last serviced?

 

I�d then call around and see what it might cost to �overhaul�, clean, repair and get parts for the particular camera in question. Only after that should you bid!

 

Thanks everyone for the quality answers.

[ranga_veeramachaneni]

Michael, 3 weeks ago, I also bought an X-570. The seller described all items to be in "great condition". I also emailed him before bidding, and he repeated his claim that they were all good. After I received the camera with 2 lens and an autowinder, I found that the camera has a jammed shutter with debris falling all over and one of the lens is also stuck, while the other lens probably works but looks very bad, and I didn't get a chance to test the autowinder. The reason I am saying all this is that not all sellers give honest answers, and not all of them are willing to repair the situation, like yours. My seller has so far not shown any intention of compensating.