travis1 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Im confused. Apparently many feel that Mark is not at fault. So why the dilemma? Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h._p. Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Allen, tell me straight: that last Crimewatch special? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 roof over your head, food on the table, and small things like that? Of course it has to be a big roof, and a very big table...just small things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Crimewatch special? Yep, got it wrong as usual. We used a mincer, flogged him to the local butchers. Bit sringy, still got a good price. Anyway, my mate Sweeney Todd wants to know if any of you would like a free shave. Genuine cutthroat used. Thoughr i'll mention it. E-mail if your interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Time to move on, i've got a business plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I wish I was rich, comfortable, and moral enough that could I tell someone else to quit a job that they need because their coworker made a shady deal. (Of course, I actually have quit a job because I was sick of the criminal behavior of my employers, so my morals may have be tainted by the realities of being broke and unemployed.) Still waiting to hear whether any of those insisting Mark quit are willing to provide him with a job or subsidy . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I bought a 105mm F4 preset Nikkor-T from KEH for 35 bucks; and was expecting the bellows version; I got the telephoto; and they wouldnt give me my money back; since it was the "bargain" level rating 20 years ago. At that time the preset "mountain Nikkor" wasnt a collectors item; just a weird old obsolete preset lens from the original Nikon F camera. I thought the as is/bargain price for the bellows 105mm F4 was a steal; but was disappointed when it wasnt a macro bellows lens. It was advertised as a "105mm F4 preset lens for bellows???; as is" <BR><BR> Later while visting a Bay Area (SF bay) camera store; the owner there said my lens was never made by Nikon; but he could give me a couple of dollars; for the "weird enlarging lens mounted on a Nikon F mount" When I mentioned it was in the Nikon F handbook; he got weirded out; and said "I will give only 20 bucks for that lens only". I thought it was strange that a shop owner was offering money for a lens I was using that day; and didnt really want to sell yet. It is good for portraits; I just stopped in the store for a few rolls of film. <BR><BR>The low ball offer was because he knew that the Japanese were buying up the first Nikon F lenses; and I didnt at the time. Today the lens is worth a grand. <A HREF=http://www.ezshots.com/members/tripods/images/tripods-232.jpg target = "_blank"> <IMG SRC=http://www.ezshots.com/members/tripods/thumbs/tripods-232-thumb.jpg BORDER=0></A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I tell someone else to quit a job that they need because their coworker made a shady deal. Shady deal! ripping off some old lady. Well that's people who work in politics for you...anything goes. If they have not got money or power; well they are nothing. Yes. it's that simple! Well, me and my mates like a few lagers. We usually have a curry...take the piss out of the indian waiter,great fun. Well ,we get a bit short of dosh sometimes. We all know where the old foggies live! they are no use to anyone. Bit of a thumping, they cought up. The old man tries to defend his wife. She screams a lot when we thump him. We soon shut him up. Fantasy, look at crime figures in any country against the old. Tell me then i'm speaking fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Still waiting to hear whether any of those insisting Mark quit are willing to provide him with a job or subsidy . . . Grown man, there are a lot of jobs in the USA. Do you really have to offer your rear to get a job in the USA? I suppose in Politics that maybe the case.Time to call on your lurking friends Mike;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Why weren't the people who are so outraged in this thread speaking up in the "garage sale" thread? I find "it's okay to pay an unfairly low price if they ask, but it's not okay to offer an unfairly low price" to be a very convenient distinction, but I question whether it makes any sense. In both cases, you're taking advantage of someone's ignorance to get a good deal. And it's very curious that someone might see that as a valid distinction, but they don't recognize the difference between clubbing someone on the head and taking their money and witnessing a coworker offering an unfairly low price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 okay here we go..... let us turn this upside down shall we..... Mark is such a great guy. If his coworker had been a purse snatcher on the street and took her purse and Mark ran and tackled him he would be a hero. Instead Mark put this thread up becuz his conscience bothered him. So, we now know that Mark is willing to protect his $10 an hour job despite him moral sense that the guy he works with his a thief. Thus Mark is a good guy. What could Mark do in his sales moment of truth? I can only say, what I would do, I would say Lady, you should get a second opinion on the value of your merchandise....or... lady, this guy is worse than a purse snatcher and he needs to work on his cardio rate and get new sneakers....or maybe the two of them should have just hit over the head and taken the stuff and given her nothing. If you guys on this thread have no sense of right and wrong and havent got the guts to act on that judgement....well, I pity you. I aint rich and comfortable....but I sleep fine at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Sitting behind a computer and telling someone else to quit his job (after all, it's nothing to find another one) displays smugness, not ethical superiority. Requiring other people to make sacrifices so you can simply pat yourself on the back is bullshit. Would Mark quitting his job make customers less likely to get ripped off? Would it punish the person who made the shady deal? No, it deosn't do a damn thing that's productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_.1 Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I for one wasn't begrudging the witness to this transaction. The fact he spoke about it on here shows that he didn't like it. There's lots of ways people make money off others- whether it be selling your services to your employer or whatever. Happens day in day out, just depends on what your tolerance is of how much skin off you can handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 want to step outside Mike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 I gotta agree Mark...you should have spoken up. If a $10 an hour job is worth compromising your morals than you can be bought pretty cheaply. You should have spoken up. Mike makes note of the 'garage sale' thread, but this is entirely diffenent IMO. Someone who is putting on a garage sale should go out of their way to some degree to make themselves aware of what they are selling. You'd think, after all the garage sale 'stories' out there (and they are legion), that people would make themselves aware. Someone walking into a 'supposedly' reputable camera shop is doing exactly that...trying to be educated as to the value of what they are selling. Your company ripped her off Mark. Even my own IIIg story...I informed the university dept what the stuff was worth...but it had all been officially depreciated and they could not legally make a bundle of money on it(just for those who'll say I've done the same thing as Mark). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlegaspi Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Allen, how old are you? i assume a young lad, because you seem to have this idea in your mind that the world is black and white. well, i've got news flash for you: it is not. plenty of shades of gray, my friend. if you're catching my drift, good for you; if not, pity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlegaspi Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 <i>You should have spoken up. </i><br><br> didn't he say he confronted his co-worker regarding this matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 on a lighter less gasoline ignite note......in our lives we have moments present themselves where we get the chance to make a bad thing better....one thought that penetrated my rocklike brain is this that Mark is not that old....and reflecting back on my "perfect" life I can think of a few moments where I knew what was wrong and what was right and I didnt always speak up.....of course, the only problem with that, is that those moments resonate for the rest of your life....finding another job and letting this current one go, that might make things better, speaking to his manager about the transaction might improve things.....silence though, that is the wrong kind of eloquence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 <i> If you guys on this thread have no sense of right and wrong and havent got the guts to act on that judgement....well, I pity you. </i><P> Instead of pitying me, educate me: explain how taking advantage of someone by offering them an unfair price is wrong, but taking advantage of someone by paying an unfair price is right.<P> And I never said Mark did the right and admirable thing, but I'm willing to cut him a little slack because there are lots of times that people are in a tight position and have to make a quick choice, and that choice isn't always the best one. Sitting at the computer after the fact and offering what you consider the right solution is a lot different than being in the situation in real time. If you can comfortably condemn Mark, and enjoy the satisfaction of knowing you would have done the "right" thing, you live in a world that's a hell of a lot simpler than the one I'm living in . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 If a $10 an hour job is worth compromising your morals than you can be bought pretty cheaply. Well, that says it all. Sorry folks, but i'm not about ripping off someones mum. Joke or not, try doing it in South London. Try doing it with my mum. Emotive,yes! Rip my mum off, cry!lots.Yes i do really mean it...in a hard way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 as far as the garage sale lowball price what do you do question: I think you tell them that they have something possibly worth much more than they know. I think you will probably kick yourself briefly but in the long haul, it is the right thing to do. I may be crazy, but it is just a thing, your soul on the other hand is a super thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 dexter legasp, you are a Phil brain, just some sad little Troll. Get a life, and take some decent photos. Plonker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 you live in a world that's a hell of a lot simpler than the one I'm living in The world is called Morals...very simple really. You don't need a great brain to figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 Bob, I see your point about responsibility for assigning value, but I'm not sure I buy it. The person who's making the purchase for an unfair price still presumably knows what they're doing. In a sense, it's like saying that camera salesman was wrong because the lady trusted him (which I'd agree with), but the person having a garage sale should know that he can't trust anyone there so it's his reponsibility to make sure the price is fair. That's a bit tricky, since one could also argue that it's the responsibility of the person having the garage sale to insure that no one steals anything (since they can't be trusted), and any theft isn't really the responsibility of the thief . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 situation in real time. Some folk do not need to answer that question. Of course, the trainee politic person is always seeking for votes, goes with the job. What do they want to hear.Sort of sad really, not what you believe, but what gets the votes. Morals..what's that got to do with anything. Votes, that's what it's all about. Tricky Dicky or what...he got the votes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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