Robert_Lai Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Those of you who follow Bjorn Rorslett's doings will know that he rated this lens very low at first. After he made modifications to the tripod collar of the lens by drilling and tapping to place extra bolts into it to secure his Arca Swiss QR plate, the lens' performance increased into the stellar category.<p>http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html<p>Click the "lenses" section on the left hand column.<p>I've not had the courage to drill into my tripod collar foot as the lens is still under warranty. However, taking a cue from his work, I have eliminated all the rubber padding on my Bogen QR plate. This leaves some metal ridges. The contact cement can be taken off with alcohol, and then the surface roughened up. My machinist friend then used PC-7 which is an industrial epoxy containing aluminum, to fill in the troughs. This cures to a concrete-like tough finish which is then milled flat. You cannot believe the extra stability this gives the lens and camera, even without Bjorn's extra bolts. Anyway, I thought that I'd share this with you folks. If others have even better remedies to stabilize their lenses with tripod collars, I'd be glad to learn.<p>PS, yes, I did take photographs of the before and after, but I haven't finished the roll yet. I'll post them when ready, if anyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Interesting. I didn't quite get from Bjorn's description what the actual problem with the 70-180's collar was. I can see that the foot is small but it looks solid. So is the texture on the surface the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_Lai Posted April 3, 2003 Author Share Posted April 3, 2003 I think that Bjorn's concern was that the footprint was too small to properly anchor a big camera like the F5. I have an F3 with MD-4 motor attached. I didn't really think that wobble was too much of a problem, but with the rubber pad removed from my quick release plate, the whole assembly feels quite solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel_o. Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Adding those 25 mm stainless steel bolts with undefined diameter he seriously weakened the tripod-foot - from the mechanical point of view, this solution is really bad, the foot might brake unexpectedly! Sorry, to be this harsh, but the solutions presented on his site are typical for enginneering amateurs without experience, in his words: "a joke". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbert_c1 Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Hi I have this lens for about 1 and half years. When I shoot cats with flash(Metz) as main light souce I got very contrasty and vivid photos. I believe the flash duration should be around 1/1000sec. When I shoot long exposure (8 to 30sec) on a tripod I also got nice pics. But when I shoot trees on a tripod at shutter speed of 1/125sec(F801/N8008), the photo I got has very noticible trace of vertical shake(two image overlaping). I found this problem soon after I got the lens. But photos I got from this lens look so real so I still keep this lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan_mcmorrin2 Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Angel, Björn's a professional photograher and simply does what works for him. He's been at it a while now and has invented all kinds of wierd and wonderful solutions to make his equipment perform in the way he wants them to. His tripod collar hasn't broken and he says it's far more solid and less prone to shake with the bolts inserted. That's it and that's that. Probably doesn't look that beautiful but he never bothers about the cosmetics of his equipment, just the quality of his images. Bests, Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel_o. Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Duncan, I'm mechanical engineer by profession and please allow me to express my concerns why there's a serious risk of a foot-breakage. It might be that the foot looks in first place stiffer than before, but what about the effects of the working load and the bending moments over the time? <br><br> The problem here is that there's simply no significant amount of material left around the drilled holes. A standard recommendation in practical engineering for being on the safe side of the road, is to leave around a drilled hole a space equivalent to 2-3 times of the hole's section; e.g. you want to drill a 6 mm hole, then your material should have at least a diameter of 12mm-18mm. In this case, the screws look like being M5-M6 and the lowest section has not more than 2mm. In addition, the holes where drilled through the stress guiding radius of the foot. The result additional and superflous stress peaks in the part. <br><br> In addition, every mechanical modification of a structure using cutting tools, such as drilling the holes themselves and cutting the threads for the screws, creates a significant amount of stress concentration in the part, and there is still no material left to "calm" the stress down. Thinking of the used material of the foot, it really doesn't let me sleep better as it is most likely aluminum cast. Cast materials that don't like stress or tensile strength at all. Therefore, I get stomach ache looking at a recommendation on how to "strengthen" the tripod mount of a big $$$ lens that in reality, is a very dubiously improvement effort. <br><br> It's not a question of a good looking design, it's a question if it's going to wreck the lens and if it's worth to take the modification risk. Bjorn is payed for taking photographs and his equipment might pay off quickly. Therefore, he cannot risk to miss a $$$ bringing photograph because of the lens' shaking. But what works for him, doesn't mean that is not questionable at all.<br><br> Of course, everybody can do what he likes best, but I'd definitely not recommend such a devaluating "improvement" with a high breakage risk. Maybe solutions such as removing rubber plates, increase the diameter of the mounting screw, mounting the camera and lens to a well manufactured solid beam bar, use a second tripod/monopod etc. are the more desirable solutions.<br><br> Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan_mcmorrin2 Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Angel, don't get me wrong, I'm not giving you a hard time. Like I said, Björn is a professional photographer and does what works for him. I personally own the 70-180 and use it pretty much daily. I do not wish to devalue my equipment by drilling holes in it, so I bought a Really Right Stuff plate and find that good enough for what I use the lense for, which is indoors in a controlled environment. Just my two cents:-) Bests, Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel_o. Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 "Controlled environment" is pretty cool...<br><br> I'm glad not to be the only one that doesn't take photos in the eye of the hurricane! :-)<br><br> Have a nice day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan_mcmorrin2 Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 LOL Well, as controlled as it gets in my place:-) The problem is, of course, accentuated when you're out in nature, which is where Björn does much of his work....and believe me, when it blows in Norway it really blows!! I live "just down the road" from Björn (200kms) on a little island just off the coast of Gothenburg, Sweden. It's the same here. I used to make jokes that eveyone on the island has the same hairstyle: up and over to the right:-) LOL Have a good one, Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_Lai Posted April 4, 2003 Author Share Posted April 4, 2003 I agree with Angel that drilling the holes where Bjorn put them, right at the radius of the foot will weaken the entire structure. That's one of the reasons (amongst many) that I didn't drill my foot. Looking at my foot when it has been mounted on the milled plate, I can see that it does not sit quite flat. It definitely makes contact where the screw hole is, but some material there seems to make it sit not quite flat on the rest of the surface. I can see light around the undersurface of the edges of the foot. That suggests two things: 1) milling of the foot will make it perfectly flat, and/or 2) drilling and tapping for a 3/8 inch - 16 tripod screw will give a more substantial mount to the foot without the excess of placing extra bolts. It might also remove the offending material at the same time. The only downside is, I think that the foot has a stainless steel threaded insert for 1/4 inch - 20 so that the soft foot material does not get worn with threading. This will prevent the latter option unless I drill even bigger and put in a stainless steel insert for 3/8 inch - 16.<p> Angel, what do you think? I'm basing this on your statements above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel_o. Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Hi Robert,<br><br> in my opinion a 3/8" thread should help. Nevertheless, if you consider this solution, you should watch out for the following:<br> - make sure that the foot is thick enough, at least 1.5x diameter of the drill size(for 3/8" => min. s=15 mm)<br> - use definitely a helicoil-insert (3/8"-16), a thread in the al-cast won't survive the screwing and unscrewing of the lens very often<br><br> Another possibility is to get a 8 mm steel plate in the size of your tripod head, screw it with a hexagonal 1/4" flat screw to the lens and use this new base as thread for the tripod's head. This should perform similar. Advantage: you don't modify the lens. Nevertheless, I'm just thinking if it wouldn't be easier to change the quick-release system for one with metal QR plates (e.g. Arca Swiss) and use here the hexagonal 1/4" flat screw instead.<br><br> Anyway, I just found a link of a nature photographer that IMHO did a quite good job stabilizing his very big teles. Here's the <A href="http://www.wildlifepaparazzo.de/paparazzo/selbstgemacht/allgemein/objektivab.html">link</A>.<br><br>The page is in German but I think the photos speak for themselves. He manufactured a beam that supports the front and the end of the lens with two pairs of rolls and screws the tripod foot to it. Furthermore, he fixates a quick release plate to the beam. <br><br> Have fun! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_lofquist Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 The objective (lens) stabilizer of Joachim Raff's looks to be excellent. Perhaps Mike Kirk, Wimberley, or RRS would build something like that over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_h._hartman Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Any comments on putting a RRS or Kirkphoto Arca Swiss style quick release plate on the bottom of the lens tripod foot. I was thinking of putting a mold release compound on the tripod foot and on the threads of the Helical and screw but not on the quick release plate then assembling it all with a metal filled epoxy. The idea being that there would be no gaps between the tripod foot and quick release plate. The quick release plate would be clamped tight or provide a larger foot print when attached to a standard tripod head. The mold release would allow removing the plate without damaging the lens (I hope).<br> <br> <a href="http://www.kirkphoto.com/lenscollars.html" target="_new"><u>Where Nikon Is Stupid Kirkphoto Finds A Way</u></a><br> <br> ...But not for the AF 70~180/4.5~5.6D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_Lai Posted April 4, 2003 Author Share Posted April 4, 2003 Following David's suggestion, I note that Kirk does offer a modified Arca-Swiss type QR plate for this specific lens:<p> http://www.kirkphoto.com/newlensplate2.html<p> This would seem to incorporate many of the changes that would be desireable in terms of better support for the foot. Has anyone tried this? I'm wondering whether I should switch over to the Arca Swiss type system now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan_mcmorrin2 Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Robert, I use the RRS plate for the 70-180 as well as their lever quick release on my Arca Swiss B1. I find it very useful, but it doesn't really provide much more vertical stability, just a niftier way of attaching it to the tripod head and better horizontal stability. Bests, Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan_mcmorrin2 Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Robert, here's the RRS plate that I use: http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/media/product_size/b96.jpg Bests, Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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