carlo_ontal Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Does anyone know if the Horseman foldable reflex viewer will fit a Toyo 45A? Also, if I wanted to use a 6x17 back on a 4x5, what lenses and considerations should I be aware of? many thanks o generous ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene_singer Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Carlo, I have been informed by my dealer that the Horseman foldable reflex viewer can be adapted to the Toyo A cameras. However, I prefer the genuine Toyo binocular reflex viewer. It seems to be made better. Although it doesn't have the folding feature, it has a swing-away design and it is easy to quickly remove it from the camera. Are you referring to a 6X12 back? A 6x17 back is too wide to fit on a 4x5 camera. It needs a 5x7 camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlo_ontal Posted March 24, 2003 Author Share Posted March 24, 2003 thanks, eugene - maybe the horseman site may have details, but i'm curious about the adaptation. other consideration might be that i'll never find a used horseman viewer, and will have to settle for the toyo. not to put down a product i've never seen - but being on location in a hot dusty or rainy climate, i wanna pare down. as to the 6x17, i have just retracted a bid on a Art Panoramic 6x17 back w/ ground glass on ebay ($970 buy it now, i think). thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emil_ems1 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Carlo, I acquired a Horseman foldable on ebay last year and use it on my toyo 45 A. I have not modified it in any way, but just put it into the hinges where the Toyo foldable groundglass protector is seated. I have to admit that it is a tight fit. It could be approved by grinding away some of the frame of the Horseman, but I can live with the tight fit as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlo_ontal Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 hi emil...that's very cool...now i can scrounge around for one w/ some confidence...i assume you had no problems w/ focus...this is great. thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_mutmansky1 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Eugene is not correct about the Art Panorama 6x17 holder. It was designed for use on a 4x5 camera. It is a somewhat rare item with a cone that is used to adapt the back to a normal 4x5 camera with a graflex back. Unless the item on ebay is a 'special' it should fit a normal 4x5 with a graflex back without problem. You are limited in focal length, however, as the adaptor cone adds some depth, and limits the angle of useful coverage. You should email the seller and get cofirmation that this back will work, but I suspect it will. ---Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene_singer Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Michael, I suggest that you re-read the original posting on this thread. Carlo wanted to use a 6X17 back on a 4X5 camera. Generically speaking, a 6X17 back is too wide for the average 4X5 camera. I never said that an Art Panoramic back cannot be used. In fact, I wouldn't know an Art Panoramic back if it leaped up and bit me on the nose. Carlo did not specify that he was looking at an Art Panoramic back until I asked him for clarafication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene_singer Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Michael, I suggest that you re-read the original posting on this thread. Carlo wanted to use a 6X17 back on a 4X5 camera. Generically speaking, a 6X17 back is too wide for the average 4X5 camera. I never said that an Art Panoramic back cannot be used. In fact, I wouldn't know an Art Panoramic back if it leaped up and bit me on the nose. Carlo did not specify that he was looking at an Art Panoramic back until I asked him for more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_mutmansky1 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Eugene, Your blanket statement that a 6x17 back will not fit on a 4x5 is incorrect, as this is exactly what the Art Panorama back is designed to do. Clearly, Carlo was thinking of the one on Ebay, and that back is suitable for a 4x5. It is important that information presented be accurate and complete. I made the correcting statement so that another person reading the archive will not assume that there are no 6x17 backs that will fit on a 4x5, as your statement implies. It is often a problem to speak 'generically', and this is an example of that. ---Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene_singer Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Read it again , Michael. I did not make a "blanket" statement that a 6X17 back will not fit on a 4X5 camera under any conditions. I merely asked Carlo if he was referring to a 6X12 back. The 6X17 width is wider than the back on a standard 4X5 camera. Can you, at least, agree with that fact? The original wooden version of the Canham camera was designed to be a 5X7 camera. It can be purchased with a 5X7 back and/or a smaller 4X5 back. A 6X17 rollfilm back will fit on the 5X7 version. So there is, at least, one exception to the rule that I am aware of. Carlo has a Toyo 45A (camera with which I am very familiar). I am quite certain that it cannot be adapted to accept a 6X17 rollfilm back, even the Art Panorama. However, it will accept 6X12 rollfilm backs made by other manufacturers. Toyo only makes 6X7 and 6X9 backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_mutmansky1 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Eugene, Your original blanket statement that a 6x17 back requires a 5x7 camera is incorect and your most recent statement that the Art Pan back will not fit is incorrect. Obviously, you do not understand how the Art Pan back works. Until the most recent Canham back was made available this spring, the only commercially available 6x17 film back was the Art Pan. It was specifically designed to adapt a 4x5 camera to take 6x17 images with a cone that tapers out to accommodate the wider format. They are pretty rare and I don't think they are available anymore. However, the fact remains that the only 6x17 back (not complete camera, but back only) was the aformentioned Art Pan, which was designed for 4x5 cameras only. The width of the 6x17 is wider than a 4x5 back, but you don't have to get me to 'accept' this. I know this as a fact, but again, you are clearly misunderstanding how the Art Pan back worked. I suggest you read my first post again, and then maybe do an archive search on what the Art Pan back is. That should clear up your confusion. Finally, I suggest you not take a correction to your post personally. There is no offence intended, I simply wanted to ensure that the information on this issue is correct. ---Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlo_ontal Posted March 26, 2003 Author Share Posted March 26, 2003 gents, i thank yo all for the informative discussion - it was obviously my fault to be so generic in assuming that 6x17 would fit on 4x5, in blissful ignorance. i did eventually let go of the item on ebay. having really looked at panoramics in general, and having been turned on to the Noblex 6x17, i have decided to really go for the true panoramic format. Notwithstanding that it costs 3 to 4 times more than the Art Pan back. This could be my handheld camera of chooice from now on. Plus what cinches it is the 2 sec exposure and multiple exposure capability. Now I have to find one. Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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