Z8 Service Advisory (first one on the Mount issue)

[John Di Leo]

now it is 7/14

[mike_halliwell]

🤞Soon!

Still the 13th here in the UK 🤔

Edited July 13, 2023 by mike_halliwell

[ShunCheung]

Again, I am not 100% sure that every Z8 is fixed the same way, but apparently the recall repair involves adding shims under the mount on the body side to adjust its position. It probably takes no more than 15 minutes for the technician and then calibrate the mount position.

[mike_halliwell]

16 minutes ago, ShunCheung said:

apparently the recall repair involves adding shims under the mount on the body side to adjust its position

So they need the distance between the contact pins and the pads made bigger?

It would, however, effectively shorten the lens release locking pin.

AFAIK, there's nothing else to bind.

Shimming won't move the relative bayonet positions.

[ShunCheung]

I understand that Nikon is adding a very very thin piece of metal (or a few pieces??) under the mount. That should put the lens a tiny bit farther away from the sensor?? And the part of the lens locking pin will stick out a little less. We are talking about a fraction of a millimeter.

[mike_halliwell]

If it's a pin length problem, a couple of seconds with some emery paper should do it.....🙂

Making sure the grindings are kept 'safely contained' would be an issue...😱

[John Di Leo]

Got the z8 back a little while ago.

The details of the invoice repair states under "Details"

ITEM            Material Description

0010             A

                    Moderate Inspections & Cleaning Service

                   Write Up

                   Repair   SC 201759

                   *

                  RPL SCREW

                  RPR BAYONET MOUNT

I attached my FTZ2 mount and the catch that I noticed earlier is now gone. The adapter mounts more easily and more smoothly.

I delivered it to UPS on 6/28 ( I think that's when, but it is listed in this thread) and it was returned to me on 7/14, so a little over two weeks, including the 7/4 holiday weekend.

 

[ShunCheung]

John, glad it is all good. Looks like it is replace screw and repair mount in this case.

[John Di Leo]

That's what it would appear. I just attached a lens to the FTZ2. Attaching the FTZ2 to the body is smoother than attaching my 35mm/1.8 to the FTZ2. TBC both feel fine.

[mike_halliwell]

So, they decided to repair rather than replace the bayonet mount? Suggests a burr.

As to replace a screw? What?

Although, interestingly, I ran my finger around the throat of my Z9 and had a feeling some of the screwheads were proud of the surface, just.

[John Di Leo]

Aside:

Is there a good tutorial or source that explains ALL the thousands of settings for this beast?

I took it out today for a fun shoot of the Running of the Bulls here. A bunch of roller skating girls wearing bull horns and somewhat skimpy outfits, but family friendly, chasing "runners"dressed as the runners do in Pamploma, and swatting them on the rear with plastic bats. It's a lot of fun, but a lot of quick action.

I set up my B profile to be "action" based on Hudson Henry's recs on youtube. I must've set them wrong because I was shooting mostly at 1/40 sec, so I got a LOT of motion blur on many shots— that was NOT intended. And I was missing focus—don't have a lot of time to place it properly, but for "action" it would seem to need to rapidly acquire without fuss. Also, the LCD did not always display after a shot, though it sometimes did. I also did not like the VF and the LCD having to wake up.  In short, I need to learn this camera better and get the settings right.

Loving the colors though. A little sharpening in Topaz sharpen AI did the trick.

 I was using the 35/1.8 G.

[ilkka_nissila]

I have used so many models of the Nikons that each new one is usually only a slight change from the previous one and so I rarely need to consult the manual. Before I would use the Z8 for real, I spent a few days with the camera, going through all the menu settings and shooting subjects that are not critical, before using it to photograph subjects that I can't afford to miss.

 

I can see that the number of settings can be bewildering. I would just spend a couple of days playing with the settings and going through the photo shooting, custom settings and setup menus, of course with priority on achieving settings that you can work with. I'm not sure why you'd have inconsistency in the LCD image showing up; there are settings that govern how the camera switches between EVF and LCD and whether the image is shown after the shot has been made. I never use automatic playback as I need to be focusing on what is happening with the subject when I'm shooting. Notice that there is a DISP button to the right of the ocular where you can choose from a bank of settings that are displayed on the monitor/EVF. And another button to the left of the ocular which can select between EVF/LCD and how the camera uses those. Sometimes the LCD image disappears accidentally when I have put my finger over the EVF and the camera has interpreted that I want to use the EVF.

 

For photographing action, I would start with the the basics. If you're photographing people subjects, make sure that you have subject detection on and selected the correct type of subject (humans). I personally favor the use of custom wide-area modes for autofocus, where one can adjust the width and height of the AF area which is also where the camera searches for a subject to focus on. This should work for most action scenarios where you can specify the approximate part of the frame where the subject ('s face or eyes) would be. It saves the camera from having to search for a subject in the entire frame (auto area), which can work but it can also get confused if there are multiple subjects. You could try both approaches. I tend to use auto area when shooting video because I need to ensure the camera is not shaken by me fiddling with the controls. For photos, I use custom wide area C1 for horizontals and C2 for vertical images and I have set the camera so that it remembers C1 and C2 for those orientations and the last position where those boxes were. I have additionally set 9-point dynamic area to the lens buttons (which some lenses have) so I can override the subject detection when there has been confusion and just point where I want it to focus. This has worked well for me so far. Other people will recommend different settings based on subject, action type and personal preferences.

 

Now about the exposure. The viewfinder will show the current shutter speed, aperture and ISO when displaying live view. It's good to keep an eye on this at times. I normally use aperture priority with the aperture chosen based on depth of field requirements and the camera can set the shutter speed and ISO to achieve correct exposure. This is a little tricky to achieve as the slowest shutter speed is situation-dependent and Nikon hasn't given an option to assign the min shutter speed of auto ISO to a function button. I usually set the auto ISO with base ISO of 64 and then the max ISO of 12800 (for the Z8) and minimum shutter speed to Auto with +1 or +2 steps faster than the camera would select automatically for the focal length. In some cases I will select the min shutter speed manually so that it freezes the action. I have easy exposure compensation set ON so that I can select aperture from sub command dial, adjust exposure compensation from the main command dial, and the camera will the adjust shutter speed and ISO according to the limits I set. If I need to quickly override the shutter speed then I will go to Manual exposure mode and set the shutter speed while the ISO is still set by the camera. However, this can result in incorrect exposures if I select a too slow shutter speed so the camera is unable to achieve correct exposure even at ISO 64. It also means I can only adjust exposure compensation by pressing and holding +/- and turning the main command dial. So I prefer Aperture priority as it is a safer choice in bright sunlight and allows easier access to EC. But it does require me to have set a reasonable minimum shutter speed in the ISO settings menu.

I have set 8 fps to the Recall shooting functions (hold) feature and assigned to Fn1. This way I can go from any settings to one that I can use for photographing action (with people subjects) with continuous release by simply pressing Fn1 and shooting as before. You can assign a whole bunch of settings to Recall shooting functions which is really a great feature but it can be complicated to set up for the first time as you have to decide which settings to keep as they are and which to override (or recall).

 

I hope these thoughts help you get workable settings for action with your camera. Or at least that they stir some discussion on how to set up the camera. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by ilkka_nissila

[John Di Leo]

EXCELLENT advice, ilkka!

Thank you. That was maybe more helpful than any of the youtubes I've seen.

The differences between the d810, that I am currently using, and the z8 are staggering, at least for me.

2 hours ago, ilkka_nissila said:

Before I would use the Z8 for real, I spent a few days with the camera, going through all the menu settings and shooting subjects that are not critical, before using it to photograph subjects that I can't afford to miss.

Exactly, that is what I tried to do, but sending it away for 2 weeks didn't help that pursuit. I brought it to this event because these were subjects I could afford to miss, being just a fun shoot. Bringing it put into focus questions that would remain elusive until they smacked me in the face. To quote Mike Tyson: Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

I have not seen those two buttons you mention before...thanks. I knew about the settings, but coming from an optical VF, this is foreign. While shooting, I realized I wanted the z8 to behave like the d810...and that is NOT the animal it is, square peg, round hole and all that.

2 hours ago, ilkka_nissila said:

I usually set the auto ISO with base ISO of 64 and then the max ISO of 12800 (for the Z8) and minimum shutter speed

And that was a source of confusion for me. I took that to mean the lower number in a range of shutter speeds, eg from 1/40 to 1/8000. It means the shortest shutter speed, now I know.

I could go on with questions, but instead, I am going to print out your excellent response and go over them.

 

One final question: I have the camera set to RAW (only), I am getting only NEFs.

When I loaded them into the computer the file size from the z8 was about 35mb. On the d810, with far fewer megapixels, the file size was ~~45mb. I expected a file size significantly greater. How is that explained?

 

Again, MANY thanks!

John

[Rob Davies]

1 hour ago, John Di Leo said:

 

 

One final question: I have the camera set to RAW (only), I am getting only NEFs.

When I loaded them into the computer the file size from the z8 was about 35mb. On the d810, with far fewer megapixels, the file size was ~~45mb. I expected a file size significantly greater. How is that explained?

 

 

I would imagine because the Z8 uses lossless raw compression (as the highest form of RAW quality), while your files from the D810 are probably straight RAW files?

[John Di Leo]

4 hours ago, Rob Davies said:

I would imagine because the Z8 uses lossless raw compression (as the highest form of RAW quality), while your files from the D810 are probably straight RAW files?

TBC I am not complaining, but there is only one RAW setting, as solely RAW, on both cameras under the Quality setting. However, on both there is another setting, called RAW recording, and I think there is where the difference resides.

On my d810 I had the RAW recording setting at the highest level, 14-bit, while on the z8, although set to RAW, it was at High Efficiency* (star).

That is probably the difference?

It's hard to avoid the mindset of bigger being better, or at least noticeable.

Thanks

[ilkka_nissila]

The D810 has the option of uncompressed, lossless compressed and compressed RAW (and further the distinction between 14 or 12 bit).

 

The Z8 has lossless compressed, high efficiency * compressed RAW and high efficiency compressed RAW. They're all 14-bit.

 

The Z8 HE*/HE are compressed more efficiently than the compressed option on the D810 so the files are smaller. Many people seem to find no visually perceptible difference between HE* and lossless compression and use HE*. I have not done a comparision between the compression methods myself but use HE* when needed. I know with RAW compression methods Nikon used in the past the compression basically left out bits in highlight pixels buried under noise so there was no practical drawback. HE (no asterisk) gives even smaller files (Nikon says HE* is higher quality than HE) but I haven't tried the HE setting.

 

If you set the D810 to lossless compressed 14-bit and the Z8 to lossless compressed, the file size difference should reflect the difference in pixel counts though compression and image content still causes differences in compressibility.

Edited July 18, 2023 by ilkka_nissila

[ShunCheung]

There is now a second Z8 service advisory, this time on the strap eyelet issue: https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/549755-nikon-z8-second-service-advisory-strap-eyelet