Wanting to Switch from iPhone to proper camera

[Loki_bleu]

Greetings. I am looking for my first proper camera. I currently use my iPhone 12 Pro Max in raw.   I got a grasp for adjusting settings (ISO - f-stop - shutter speed) - well as much as you can on a phone.  I am interested in getting a proper camera (budget friendly); yet there are so many choices that I would like to get some input from those who have more experience.  Any help, input, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.   

[Sanford]

What's your budget?

[Loki_bleu]

$500 -$750. If I can get a package with body & 1-2 then maybe towards upper end.   I have a range of interest, from sunsets, sunrise, landscape & night    Would like to dabble in light streaks at night also. 

[Sanford]

I always liked the Panasonic G7 or GX85 kits in that price range. Access to a real camera store to get the feel would be ideal.

[Niels - NHSN]

You will want to get a new'ish camera not to get disappointed when shooting night photography. My iPhone 14 pro max is exceptionally good in the dark, and my previous iPhone 8 wasn't too bad. 

I don't have any specific camera recommendations, but just recommend stearing away from older models if Night photography is important.

[AJG]

There are lots of recent DSLRs, especially APS-C format cameras that should meet your immediate needs and fit your budget.  There really aren't any terrible cameras from the last few years although some are certainly better than others, depending on your needs. I am a long time Pentax user and have been happy with their cameras and lenses, but Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, etc. also make very competent systems. If you can, get to a camera store so that you can see the camera and make sure that it feels right in your hands and that the controls seem logical to you.  If you don't feel comfortable with it you won't get as good results even if the tech specs are excellent. 

[paddler4]

There are so many options and so many variables that this is hard to answer. But a few general thoughts that might help:

-- Lots of the bells and whistles on more expensive cameras won't make be any help with the sort of photography you describe. You don't need fancy autofocus, burst shooting, or top-of-the-line image stabilization.

--Consider buying into a system rather than just buying a camera. As you get more experienced, you will want to add more things.

--Mirrorless is clearly the way the world is going, but at that very low budget level, I suspect that most of what you will find will be DSLRs. That's fine for your purposes, but you will be limited to lenses designed for DSLRs. In the other direction, with most brands, those lenses will be usable with a mirrorless body of you switch.

--Re night photography: It depends on what you do. I do quite a bit of night photography, and for what I do, you don't need a camera with a relatively new sensor that can handle very low light with short exposures. This is because I do it all with long exposures. However, that requires a tripod, which adds $$. For example, I have one night photograph that one a competition even though it was taken with a Canon 50D, an old, noise-prone camera that is currently worth almost nothing. So this requires more information.

--With that low a budget, I would consider looking at used equipment, or at least refurbished equipment. The safe way to buy used equipment is from a retailer that guarantees it, like KEH.

[Ricochetrider]

Following up on the above advice, in terms of "system" cameras and lenses, begin with a camera with interchangeable lenses (rather than fixed lens). Panasonic Lumix & Olympus Mirrorless (micro 4/3) lenses are  compatible with both brands- so between the two there is a massive selection across the price spectrum. Check the used market to score a nice camera in your price range that would cost much more from new.  

[Loki_bleu]

All of this information is super helpful.   I really like the fact of going to a store to get a feel.   I would love to get a mirror less, & I know they are more $$.  I am not sure I can get a secondhand one that would be better than a new dslr.  Any sites you know of that have decent secondhand?   
of maybe I just upgrade to the iPhone 14 pro max for now & save up for a system.   
when it comes to a system, any certain lenses recommendations?  
I am pretty sure a night lens is different that a landscape/sunset-sunrise, & light trails (or am I in incorrect?)

You all have been super amazing with this & I am so appreciative 

even with my iPhone 12 Pro Max, I have won some awards    One is from the photo attached

[William Michael]

5 hours ago, Loki_bleu said:

Any sites you know of that have decent secondhand?   

My guess is you re in the USA, I have bought second hand (on line - delivery by mail) from B&H Photo - I reckon I am a lot further away from them, than you are. I found them good. If you are in the US, you have other large stores from which to choose, Adorama and KEH are often mentioned in these forums: I have dealt with neither.

5 hours ago, Loki_bleu said:

of maybe I just upgrade to the iPhone 14 pro max for now & save up for a system.

That's an option. If I were you I would hold off on that option and research what your money can buy. The point is you know that there will be a new i-phone coming, on the other hand, it seems that you are not sufficiently educated on the alternatives, yet.

5 hours ago, Loki_bleu said:

when it comes to a system, any certain lenses recommendations?

On buying into "systems" I believe that one should consider the advantages of buying into a 'big manufacturer' and 'readily available most anywhere' system: ergo second hand there will likely be more options; repairs likely easier; going to a physical camera shop - likely more choices; apropos range of lenses and accessories - likely a bigger range; apropos third party compatible options - likely a bigger range; etc. That means Canon or Nikon. As for lens recommendations - I comment below.

5 hours ago, Loki_bleu said:

I am pretty sure a night lens is different that a landscape/sunset-sunrise, & light trails (or am I in incorrect?)

As a general comment, I think it unwise to classify lenses by the job that they do. The reason is that I think doing so might limit one's thinking and creativity. For example I have a very fine, thin 10" blade knife, I use it mainly for slicing ham, thinly: but I don't refer to it as my 'ham knife' or my 'carving knife' - this tool is really useful for: filleting large fish; flaying medium sized carcasses; butterflying steaks and poultry; etc.    

What is important to consider is the suitability of the characteristics of the tool, for the particular task.

Landscapes can be photographed with a range of lenses: noting that there is a large range of Photographs which fit the genre "Landscape" So too, Sunrises and Sunsets, for the same reason.

***

When you mention "Light Trails" I assume 'Night Sky Light Trails' you are now getting specific - that's a 'particular task'. So yes, we can now begin to define the characteristics of the lens which will be suitable for that task; keeping in mind that, such a particular lens might well (probably will) suit other tasks too, For 'light trails' - typically I would choose a wide angle lens, because I want a vast expanse of night sky in the image. Secondly I would choose a Prime Lens (not a Zoom Lens), because I would want to limit the likelihood of Ghost Images, Flare and Veiling Flare. Thirdly the Lens would not necessarily need to be very 'fast'  - that means it would not necessarily need to have a very large maximum aperture, because to capture a Light Trail, the shutter is going to be open for several second anyway, so fast lens speed in not a priority. On the other hand: IF I also wanted to have a lens to capture the night sky WITHOUT star movement then I would want fast lens speed. Ergo - IF I bought a fast wide angle Prime Lens I could use that for both tasks.

What I advise you NOT to do - Please do not read the above as advice to run out and buy Prime Lenses instead of Zoom Lenses - that was not my point, nor my advice. The above was an explanation, and example of how I believe one should work through the thinking and the planning of what you want to achieve. 

***

I have (mainly) SLR and DSLR Camera systems. I also have Mirror-less systems, both film and digital. (I have difficulty parting with my cameras and I have been at this for a long time - you probably have, or will have lots of favourite knives and pans.) That said, my digital Mirror-less system is Canon. It is Canon because Canon is one of the big two, it is also Canon because my DSLR system is Canon - my Canon lenses can fit to both.

However - for my digital Mirror-less system I have bought and use (almost exclusively) third party Lenses. The third party lenses are all manual lenses (meaning I need to use manual focus and metering). I could use any of my Canon EF (i.e. DSLR) lenses with my Canon Mirror-less camera, but I find the balance is poor (i.e balance - weight - in my hand). 

The above is merely to outline the background from which I am writing.

***

If I were to buy into a Mirror-less System, from scratch, I would investigate Canon and Nikon (I hold neither as preference). I would assess which camera feels 'right' in my hands. I would assess which Menu System is intuitive. I would assess the range and diversity of the lenses available. And (importantly) the Image Quality of the basic, or next up from basic, Standard Zoom Lens. These are the basics for the first choice.

With one's first camera, I advocate buying a Standard Zoom Lens, the better the quality, then good, within the budget - and then use that Lens, really use that lens, really really use that lens - the more one uses that lens, the more one will learn what is possible and what is not possible, and what one wants to do next.

You will be able to make many "Landscape" images with a Standard Zoom Lens. You will also be able to make "Light Trails" with a Standard Zoom Lens.

(Probably) for both tasks you will need a Stable Tripod, Head and Remote Shutter Release: if Landscapes are your thing, then factor these tools into your budget. A quality Tripod and Head are typically expensive if bought new; the good thing is buying these tools second hand, in person, is both are really easy test. My least expensive Tripod was bought at a money lender's shop - I simply plonked my biggest camera and biggest lens on it and then wobbled the rig - simple test.  

Good luck with your choices and have great fun in your Journey with The Craft.

WW

 

                                            

         

[Loki_bleu]

19 minutes ago, William Michael said:

My guess is you re in the USA, I have bought second hand (on line - delivery by mail) from B&H Photo - I reckon I am a lot further away from them, than you are. I found them good. If you are in the US, you have other large stores from which to choose, Adorama and KEH are often mentioned in these forums: I have dealt with neither.

That's an option. If I were you I would hold off on that option and research what your money can buy. The point is you know that there will be a new i-phone coming, on the other hand, it seems that you are not sufficiently educated on the alternatives, yet.

On buying into "systems" I believe that one should consider the advantages of buying into a 'big manufacturer' and 'readily available most anywhere' system: ergo second hand there will likely be more options; repairs likely easier; going to a physical camera shop - likely more choices; apropos range of lenses and accessories - likely a bigger range; apropos third party compatible options - likely a bigger range; etc. That means Canon or Nikon. As for lens recommendations - I comment below.

As a general comment, I think it unwise to classify lenses by the job that they do. The reason is that I think doing so might limit one's thinking and creativity. For example I have a very fine, thin 10" blade knife, I use it mainly for slicing ham, thinly: but I don't refer to it as my 'ham knife' or my 'carving knife' - this tool is really useful for: filleting large fish; flaying medium sized carcasses; butterflying steaks and poultry; etc.    

What is important to consider is the suitability of the characteristics of the tool, for the particular task.

Landscapes can be photographed with a range of lenses: noting that there is a large range of Photographs which fit the genre "Landscape" So too, Sunrises and Sunsets, for the same reason.

***

When you mention "Light Trails" I assume 'Night Sky Light Trails' you are now getting specific - that's a 'particular task'. So yes, we can now begin to define the characteristics of the lens which will be suitable for that task; keeping in mind that, such a particular lens might well (probably will) suit other tasks too, For 'light trails' - typically I would choose a wide angle lens, because I want a vast expanse of night sky in the image. Secondly I would choose a Prime Lens (not a Zoom Lens), because I would want to limit the likelihood of Ghost Images, Flare and Veiling Flare. Thirdly the Lens would not necessarily need to be very 'fast'  - that means it would not necessarily need to have a very large maximum aperture, because to capture a Light Trail, the shutter is going to be open for several second anyway, so fast lens speed in not a priority. On the other hand: IF I also wanted to have a lens to capture the night sky WITHOUT star movement then I would want fast lens speed. Ergo - IF I bought a fast wide angle Prime Lens I could use that for both tasks.

What I advise you NOT to do - Please do not read the above as advice to run out and buy Prime Lenses instead of Zoom Lenses - that was not my point, nor my advice. The above was an explanation, and example of how I believe one should work through the thinking and the planning of what you want to achieve. 

***

I have (mainly) SLR and DSLR Camera systems. I also have Mirror-less systems, both film and digital. (I have difficulty parting with my cameras and I have been at this for a long time - you probably have, or will have lots of favourite knives and pans.) That said, my digital Mirror-less system is Canon. It is Canon because Canon is one of the big two, it is also Canon because my DSLR system is Canon - my Canon lenses can fit to both.

However - for my digital Mirror-less system I have bought and use (almost exclusively) third party Lenses. The third party lenses are all manual lenses (meaning I need to use manual focus and metering). I could use any of my Canon EF (i.e. DSLR) lenses with my Canon Mirror-less camera, but I find the balance is poor (i.e balance - weight - in my hand). 

The above is merely to outline the background from which I am writing.

***

If I were to buy into a Mirror-less System, from scratch, I would investigate Canon and Nikon (I hold neither as preference). I would assess which camera feels 'right' in my hands. I would assess which Menu System is intuitive. I would assess the range and diversity of the lenses available. And (importantly) the Image Quality of the basic, or next up from basic, Standard Zoom Lens. These are the basics for the first choice.

With one's first camera, I advocate buying a Standard Zoom Lens, the better the quality, then good, within the budget - and then use that Lens, really use that lens, really really use that lens - the more one uses that lens, the more one will learn what is possible and what is not possible, and what one wants to do next.

You will be able to make many "Landscape" images with a Standard Zoom Lens. You will also be able to make "Light Trails" with a Standard Zoom Lens.

(Probably) for both tasks you will need a Stable Tripod, Head and Remote Shutter Release: if Landscapes are your thing, then factor these tools into your budget. A quality Tripod and Head are typically expensive if bought new; the good thing is buying these tools second hand, in person, is both are really easy test. My least expensive Tripod was bought at a money lender's shop - I simply plonked my biggest camera and biggest lens on it and then wobbled the rig - simple test.  

Good luck with your choices and have great fun in your Journey with The Craft.

WW

 

                                            

         

This was spot on.   Great information & help.   I am deeply indebted & appreciate all the knowledge 

[William Michael]

There is no debt: simply passing it forward.

[SCL]

If in the USA and looking for used cameras in addition to the aforementioned names (all of which I've bought from over the years) I'll add Use Photo, A division of Roberts in Indianapolis. They seem to usually have a good supply of used mirrorless Micro 4/3 bodies and lenses (I actually got my first one from them several years ago and it is still going strong).

[Loki_bleu]

I saw this camera system online & wanted to see if I can get your thoughts on the camera, lenses & accessories.  Also if the price is justified 

[AJG]

Depending on condition and usage this isn't a terrible price, but be aware that add on tele and wide angle adapter lenses are usually poor quality and not very useful. Cheap tripods are also usually not that good and won't last long.  That said, you could do worse for a starter camera and Canon has lots of lenses available if you stay with that brand.  

[Loki_bleu]

4 hours ago, AJG said:

Depending on condition and usage this isn't a terrible price, but be aware that add on tele and wide angle adapter lenses are usually poor quality and not very useful. Cheap tripods are also usually not that good and won't last long.  That said, you could do worse for a starter camera and Canon has lots of lenses available if you stay with that brand.  

Great thoughts.   I have some good tripods here I used for cooking classes & I can sage the extra money for better lenses

[Ken Katz]

Check the price and condition against what is available used from KEH, Roberts, Adorama, and B&H.  For a first real camera, I think buying new, or used from these reputable dealers would make sense.  The camera and 2 lenses are fine, but most of the rest of the stuff:  cheap tripods, most filters, too big a camera bag, and especially the wide & telephoto adaptors are junk you don't need.  CF cards are really cheap, but the big blower in the photo is nice to have.  Would not recommend any additional lenses or other stuff until you have used the camera for a while.

 

Note also that a tripod used to hold an Iphone for video may not be sturdy enough to use with a DSLR.

[William Michael]

Seems reasonable price if condition is OK but there's stuff you don't need. It seems to me that the owner bought a "starter kit" which was laden with "stuff" that they were told was "necessary" - either told by the salesperson or an 'expert' on the www.

*** 

I agree with both comments above and my emphases are:

> Check the price and condition against what is available used from KEH, Roberts, Adorama, and B&H.  For a first real camera, I think buying new, or used from these reputable dealers would make sense. 

> add on tele and wide angle adapter lenses are usually poor quality and not very useful. Cheap tripods are also usually not that good and won't last long. . . cheap tripods, most filters, too big a camera bag, and especially the wide & telephoto adaptors are junk you don't need.

> Would not recommend any additional lenses or other stuff until you have used the camera for a while.

WW

[rodeo_joe1]

I would get something in DX (APS) format. Anything with a smaller sensor won't let you explore shallow depth-of-field properly. It should also, obviously, allow full manual control of all features, but good Auto Focus is expected these days. 

I think a DSLR would be quite an alien way of working coming from an I-Phone. But it's a matter of personal choice. You might like the more direct (and pokey) view of the subject through a DSLR viewfinder. 

Thing is, that none of us are you, and only you can decide what sort of camera you like and feel comfortable with. Find a store where you can try a few different models out. 

I don't think there's a particular standout make or model of camera in the price range that you're looking at. Nikon, Canon, Sony, or whatever other top-name brand's camera; they're all going to deliver good quality pictures. It's more how the camera feels in your hands that counts. 

WRT that Rebel 4ti kit: That camera model is now over 11 years old, which is quite ancient in terms of digital camera evolution. I think you can do much better for your budget. 

Don't jump at the first thing that comes along. Take your time to find something that suits you. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by rodeo_joe1