sandy. Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 I have searched the archive, and I could not find my answer. Maybe I am not frequenting this forum enough.... I really really like and want to buy the EOS 1Ds because of its full frame CMOS, but the sheer size and bulk of the camera just make me don't know what to do. Coming from the Leica M world where everything is small, or even comapare with my EOS 2A, the 1 Ds is really hugh. What should I do ? Is there any words out about a D60 size FULL FRAME body yet ? I know the D40 and D80 is also 2/3" size. Thanks for any useful information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_t1 Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Um the D40 and D80 don't exisit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_webster Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 While I don't have the EOS 1Ds, I do have and use both the EOS 1V HS, which I understand is similar in size to the 1Ds, and an M7 with Motor M. With the 85/1.8 on the Canon and the 75/1.4 summilux on the M7 w/Motor, I don't find much weight difference or problem in handling the Canon particularly given the exceptional balance of Canon lenses. Thus, if the 1Ds is, in fact, anywhere similar in size to the 1V HS, I wouldn't be concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflesher Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 "With the 85/1.8 on the Canon and the 75/1.4 summilux on the M7 w/Motor, I don't find much weight difference or problem in handling the Canon particularly given the exceptional balance of Canon lenses." But I'll bet the Canon focuses faster :))))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NK Guy Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 If the 1Ds is too heavy for you, then you should wait. Something will inevitably show up within the next while. And, as noted, the D40 and D80 were rumours and are not real cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noshir_patel Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Canon's new camera is the 10D. Basically an improved D60 with the same resolution and lower price. Affordable and lighter full frame digital won't be here for awhile it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy. Posted March 13, 2003 Author Share Posted March 13, 2003 Jack, as you well know, the attraction for the M is compactness. I have never used a Leica motordrive because I think it is too bulky and very clumsy. I love the Canon lenses for their silient focusing and optical quality. However, I still think there is a substantial weight difference between the D60 and the 1Ds. Your opinion ? NK Guy, if the D40 and D80 are not reality, have you heard anything else through the grapevine? May be a little bird has told you something? I already have the EOS 2A and a Sony DSC-F717. Should I go buy a D60 for stop gap measure, so that I can use my Canon lenses on the D60? Or simply just wait ? I also know that new D60 are also non-existing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_webster Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Jack, I read with interest your postings on the Leica Forum concerning your move away from the M. While the M has its place, the AF and low light capabilities of my EOS 1V are unsurpassed. Unfortunately, it's just not very quiet ... but you will get the image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_t1 Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Sandy, I'd rather wait, unless you have some dire need to jump the gun into the DSLR world. Also, I wouldn't put my money on rumors, because in the end they're just "rumors", things change a lot in the world of digital, so as I said unless you have a dire need I would wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy. Posted March 13, 2003 Author Share Posted March 13, 2003 Hi K T, there is no dire need to jump into the DSLR. My Sony is a good camera, but with a fixed lens, even when it is a CZ zoom lens. You know what I am talking about .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the the Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Sandy: With all your talk of buying the D60 as a stop-gap measure, why no mention of the 10D as a viable alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy. Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 Mr. Clarke, you are sooo right. 10D it is. I will start checking with my local camera store tomorrow. Any good recommendation ? Thank you very much for the wake up call. Meanwhile, I will still be waiting patiently for a lightweight fullframe to come on the market. One day...one day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy. Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 I wonder how many of us out there, like Jack Flesher and now me, are quietly defecting from Leica to Canon digital. This is not Leica bashing because I have not sold off a single piece (of Leica gear). I still like both M and R, but I truly think their time has gone.... just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_schietzsch Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Unless you shoot wider than a 20mm on film (which you can do with a 14mm on a D60 or 10D), does it REALLY matter if it's full frame? Consider that the smaller sensor uses the "sweet" central imaging area of the glass, has telephoto advantages, AND costs less. Plus, it's available now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesshupe Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 You do not mention your concern for the full frame sensor. Is it a perceived image quality issue? Is it the cropping factor ratio of 1:1.6? I just got home from a Digital Solutions Workshop and Tradeshow. I got to play with the 1DS and the 10D. The 10D had the optional battery pack. It was very nice - not too heavy at all - considering it is SS inside with Mag skins. On display was an identical image - I believe it was a 30x40 - printed from a Hassleblad 5xx (120), Hassleblad H1 with DCS Pro Back, Canon 1D, 1DS, D60 and the new 10D. I prefered all the digital images over the MF Hassy at that print size. I could only tell a very small difference between the 1DS and 10D image in the smallest of details, and I had to really hunt. Remember, I was viewing a 30x40 image at about 9 inches from the print. What I am saying is there is no need to wait. Jump in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy. Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 I am jumping in !!! I just have to find a dealer that will not charge me an arm and a leg for a grey market kit. I do not want a grey market anything. From what I can find on the net, the 10D was just released today. Must be hot as hell.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy. Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 Charles, sorry for not answering your question about the fullframe. It is the conversion factor. 1:1 is always easier than 1:1.6.... No Einstein here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoeica images Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 The cool thing about getting a Canon Digital SLR is that if you have Leica-R lenses, you can use them on the Canon's with an adapter. The 10D is very tempting, the 1D or 1Ds may be too much for me. I mainly would like the digital SLR for special events and conventions where film is not needed since they want CD's anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflesher Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Sandy: I agree re the M's compactness -- it is THE reason I love the camera. BUT, speaking as a former Leica shooter, IMO you will not be satisfied with the construction of anything less than the 1D / 1Ds Canons, and the 1.6 crop factor of the other models may annoy you more than you realize. (the 1.3x on the 1D is liveable for me.) I am not trying to start a flame war, as I'm sure the 10D is a superb lighter-weight DSLR, but rather want to encourage you to at least handle a 1D or 1Ds before you plunk money down on the other. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflesher Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Sandy: I forgot to mention shutter-lag. Like the Leica M, the 1D/1Ds have virtually none, which is a HUGE deal to me. I cannot speak to the 10D as I have heard nothing on its shutter-lag yet... Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy. Posted March 14, 2003 Author Share Posted March 14, 2003 Jack, thanks, those are very weighty, important considerations for a (still) M user. I can't jump into the 10D yet because there are long lines ahead of me. May be this would give me time to try out both the 10D and the 1Ds. End of the day, I must say I'd rather have the full frame much more than the 2/3". Thanks again for your wisdom. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Shutter lag on the 10D is reported as "190ms" though measurement conditions were not stated. The D60 was 240ms. On the 1D and 1Ds (and EOS-1n and EOS-3) it's also 190ms for a full shutter press (AE but no AF), but 55ms if you 1/2 depress the shutter first. The Elan II is reported as 190/90 rather than 190/55. My guess is that since the 10D is built on the Elan 7 (or at least seems to be), it may also be a 190/90 camera - but that's just a guess. These times obviously don't include AF time, which is highly variable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflesher Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Bob: FWIW: I set CF 4 to 1 on both my 1D and 1Ds, which makes the rear "*" button the AF button instead of the half-press on the shutter doing AF. Since I do this, I get virtually no lag when I press the shutter for an exposure. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflesher Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Also FWIW, the 1D/1Ds is built on the 1V film chassis, and it has faster AF than either the 1N or 3 series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 Jack - with CF4 set like that, you'll get the 190ms shutter lag. That's the time from pushing the shutter to the time that the exposure actually starts. The time is needed for the camera to determine exposure and move the mirror out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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