Ilford PANF 50…pink negatives anyone?

[antonroland]

Hello Folks

I have not shot Ilford PANF 50 for some time. Fresh in-date film, fresh chemicals and done on the numbers…

Any ideas?

Thanks!

[Tony Parsons]

Any chance of seeing images, please ?

[antonroland]

1 hour ago, tony_parsons1 said:

Any chance of seeing images, please ?

Will do so in the morning…my local time approaching midnight.  
 

Maybe it will be better or “right” in the morning. It already looked a bit better as it started to dry…

Cheers!

[Tony Parsons]

Many things look better in the morning - hope your negs do too.

[rodeo_joe1]

Probably just anti-halation dye that hasn't been washed out properly. 

Unless the pink stain is patchy, it'll make absolutely no difference to the scanned or printed result. 

[glen_h]

The TMax films are well known for the pink sensitizing dye that remains longer than you wish it would.

Well, also, the hexagonal grains fix slower, as they dissolve from the edges. 

But sometimes extra fixing to get the pink out.

(Even though, as you note, it doesn't cause problems.)

I have not had problems with PanF+, though.

[antonroland]

12 hours ago, tony_parsons1 said:

Many things look better in the morning - hope your negs do too.

😂😂😝😂

THAT is true! They actually DO look slightly better this morning…This film was washed, rinsed and pre-soaked like I have NEVER done before and chemicals all fresh…

Oh well, I will try fixing a bit longer then but only after scanning as is…

Cheers!

2 hours ago, glen_h said:

The TMax films are well known for the pink sensitizing dye that remains longer than you wish it would.

Well, also, the hexagonal grains fix slower, as they dissolve from the edges. 

But sometimes extra fixing to get the pink out.

(Even though, as you note, it doesn't cause problems.)

I have not had problems with PanF+, though.

Fixed it for about 5 minutes (fresh fixer) which has always been enough…oh well…

Once in the past I had a dull grey film and that was also cured by fixing again…fixer was old.

So we learn.

Edited January 8, 2023 by antonroland
Prematurely submitted

[rodeo_joe1]

1 hour ago, antonroland said:

pre-soaked... 

With a normal inversion-agitation tank and technique a pre-soak is totally unnecessary. 

It's only necessary with continuous rotary agitation, as on a Jobo processing machine. Otherwise there's a risk of foaming marks. 

FWIW. The pink dye in T-max film fades with exposure to light and air. I believe it oxidises away. It's probably the same with PanF+, but last time I used an Ilford film (in 120 size) the AH dye had a greenish-blue tint. 

It makes no odds. The film will print or scan just as well regardless.

Edited January 8, 2023 by rodeo_joe1

[Alan Marcus]

 A little insight into the pink:

The goodies make film photography work are light-sensitive compounds of the metal silver. These are called silver salts. We use three, silver bromine, silver chlorine, and silver iodine. All are naturally only sensitive to violet and blue light. The results are sometimes weird. Lips and cheeks being red often reproduce too dark, maybe even black or dark gray, void of detail. Additionally, prior to 1864, these materials suffered from halation.  We are talking, a halo seen surrounding highlight areas. The cause of the halation is bright light rays from highlight sources often penetrate the film and are reflected and   bounce around inside the emulsion.

Professor Hermann Vogel of Berlin Technical went to work on the halation problem. Once he dyed an emulsion yellow hoping to stop the halation by filtering out the reflected blue rays. This worked, halation’s were tamed, plus to his surprise, the emulsion became sensitive to green light. He had invented what we now called orthochromatic film.

This new black & white film made images that were more faithful reproductions, as for the first-time film gained green sensitivity. His students and others went to work finding other dyes and these gave film blue, green, and red sensitivity. These are labeled panchromatic meaning sensitive to all colors.   

Today’s films use sensitizing dye to alter their sensitivity. These are water soluble and will washout given sufficient time to soak. in fixer or wash, otherwise, they remain. Because they are uniform in color, they are harmless when it comes to printing and scanning.

[steve_swinehart]

The pink is a residual from the anti-halation coating.   No amount of fixing or washing will make it go away.  What I did was put a cool-white fluorescent light in my drying cabinet.   The UV in the light will optically bleach the pink out of the film.   I normally leave the film in the drying cabinet with the light on for 6-8 hours.  At the end of that time, the film is dry and no longer pink.   

[antonroland]

7 hours ago, steve_swinehart said:

The pink is a residual from the anti-halation coating.   No amount of fixing or washing will make it go away.  What I did was put a cool-white fluorescent light in my drying cabinet.   The UV in the light will optically bleach the pink out of the film.   I normally leave the film in the drying cabinet with the light on for 6-8 hours.  At the end of that time, the film is dry and no longer pink.   

Thanks!