Eyes on the Film Market

[c_watson1]

A

 

After you.

Seems you missed the point of the criticism which was unsupported impressionistic blather.

[Mike Gammill]

Still using a lot of black & white (almost all from 100' rolls). I do use less due to higher prices. Currently in my bulk loaders I have HP5+, Kentmere 100, and Pan F+. My fourth loader has enough early 80's Panatomic-X for a few more reloads. When I do use color (C41) I wait and send three or four rolls to Dwayne's for develop and scan. While I do have some digital gear, I mainly use it for sharing photos with family and friends who don't to wait for my film images.

[m42dave]

So now I have to decide between getting a haircut or shooting film. :eek:

 

So I now cut my own hair and shoot more film. :D

[chuck_foreman1]

Good Advice Alvin.. just had my hair cut ...don't know the math percentage but from Xmas €30,00 to yesterday €45,00.. I will not go back there I will have to find a cheaper solution.

Well I could clearly see the writing on the wall back in the late 90s as digital took over. I realized despite the conspiracy theorists regarding the disappearance of film. I knew there would be film and certainly well into the new ie now century but it would be increasingly hard to find and of course cost a lot more.

A lot of optimistic people in the advent of Lomography and a so called film revival speculated this would be enough to ... well new labs opening and plentuful supplies of inexpensive film. In my view this seems more likely the reason the prices went up, but lets be real here...they're certainly not going to go down in my limited liefetime. And like my recent haircut the inflation of the post pandemic world will be ripe with soaring inflation for every commodity

[Bettendorf]

Good Advice Alvin.. just had my hair cut ...don't know the math percentage but from Xmas €30,00 to yesterday €45,00.. I will not go back there I will have to find a cheaper solution.

Well I could clearly see the writing on the wall back in the late 90s as digital took over. I realized despite the conspiracy theorists regarding the disappearance of film. I knew there would be film and certainly well into the new ie now century but it would be increasingly hard to find and of course cost a lot more.

A lot of optimistic people in the advent of Lomography and a so called film revival speculated this would be enough to ... well new labs opening and plentuful supplies of inexpensive film. In my view this seems more likely the reason the prices went up, but lets be real here...they're certainly not going to go down in my limited liefetime. And like my recent haircut the inflation of the post pandemic world will be ripe with soaring inflation for every commodity

Yikes! €30 and €45 for a haircut? Do you also get your toenails clipped with that?! :)

[ralf_j.]

Hi everyone - please let's be respectful and keep conversation civil, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I thought it would be good to share.

 

With that said, I paid a visit to a local Walgreens and thought maybe it can help you on the State side, the 3 pack c41 kodak is already at 27.99$ in their computer, but the sticker was not replaced, I scooped up what they had and took a photo of the sticker price, they honored it, it beats anything the pro stores offer by 3$ a pack in the least, and that is if they had the stock (B&H does not).

 

[Bettendorf]

Using Freestyle as a barometer, 17 months ago I bought a 3-pack of Kodak Gold 200, 36ex. for $10.61. Today it's $30.

All through 2021 you would see, "Back in Stock on XXX" which was usually 4-6 weeks later. When it did show up it was much higher, run out quickly, and the process would start all over again. What I see here is maybe a supply CHAIN problem and not a raw materials or demand problem. Freestyle has to wait on Kodak, Kodak has to wait on a full staff for full production, being at full production is waiting on... etc, etc.

So my hope is that this will indeed iron itself out over time.

[bruce_z._li2]

My staple color negative films (Fuji or Kodak 400) are definitely increasing in price in a dramatic way over the last 6 months. Not only the price has jumped, but also the availability has deteriorated. Neither seem to be in stock at B&H or Adorama. I guess I have to scout the local drugstores for a fix, like one of the other forum members do.

 

B&W film stock is plenty and there is an excellent selection out there. Even though the price has increased quite a bit for the big three, there are still many reasonably priced alternatives. And expired stock typically hold well even for those expired in 1980s/1990s.

 

What I miss most are the color slide stocks. They tend to have more unique color palettes that is difficult to find in digital. And they are easy to scan without much fuss in post processing. In my humble opinion, slightly expired slide films near sunrise and sunset produce one of the most amazing colors for my eyes. Thus I have to hoard shamelessly, and buy whatever I can afford off eBay.

[m42dave]

Using Freestyle as a barometer, 17 months ago I bought a 3-pack of Kodak Gold 200, 36ex. for $10.61. Today it's $30.

All through 2021 you would see, "Back in Stock on XXX" which was usually 4-6 weeks later. When it did show up it was much higher, run out quickly, and the process would start all over again. What I see here is maybe a supply CHAIN problem and not a raw materials or demand problem. Freestyle has to wait on Kodak, Kodak has to wait on a full staff for full production, being at full production is waiting on... etc, etc.

So my hope is that this will indeed iron itself out over time.

 

I usually buy film on Amazon and have noticed a lot of variability in prices, whether it's shipped directly from them or from 3rd-party vendors. Prices can vary considerably from week to week, with stock-outs seeming more frequent and lasting longer. If one is patient and looks around enough, though, you can still find some reasonably good deals.

Edited March 12, 2022 by m42dave

[c_watson1]

Hi everyone - please let's be respectful and keep conversation civil, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I thought it would be good to share.

 

With that said, I paid a visit to a local Walgreens and thought maybe it can help you on the State side, the 3 pack c41 kodak is already at 27.99$ in their computer, but the sticker was not replaced, I scooped up what they had and took a photo of the sticker price, they honored it, it beats anything the pro stores offer by 3$ a pack in the least, and that is if they had the stock (B&H does not).

 

[ATTACH=full]1420180[/ATTACH]

Lucky you. So the price after Walgreens updates their shelf price is $9/roll. Biannual Kodak price hikes in Canada for the past 3 years have boosted their film materials to new highs, again, little or nothing attributable current inflationary pressure. Here's what Toronto photographers pay before small instore discounts:

 

Shop Online

[brett_rogers]

"Obviously current events have a lot to do with price and availability."

 

With respect, I'm curious how long and how closely you've been watching film prices. "Current events" aren't the issue. Both Fujifilm and Kodak have steadily jacked prices and cut selection for at least the past 5-6 years, dramatically so in the past 2-3 years.

 

Film is a residual market. Magical thinking aside, demand for film is miniscule now. Anyone announcing a "film revival" has to explain why there's been no resurgence of labs. Dwayne's plainly enjoys a "last man standing" position. Surviving labs in Toronto do well because of the mass extinction small of pro labs and cheap Noritsu/Fuji minilab C-41 processing.

 

Used gear prices? Whatever the market will bear.

Seems you missed the point of the criticism which was unsupported impressionistic blather.

Right back at ya.

[c_watson1]

Right back at ya.

 

And your point is...?

[Bettendorf]

Does this forum have any Moderators?... Or should we change the name to "Romper Room" ?

[c_watson1]

Does this forum have any Moderators?... Or should we change the name to "Romper Room" ?

 

More fact-based discussion might help, especially when it comes to the current realities/economics of film shooting.

[q.g._de_bakker]

More fact-based discussion might help, especially when it comes to the current realities/economics of film shooting.

But then, there are those who discuss facts and those who dismiss facts.

[kmac]

Here's a fact ....the new Ektachrome E100 has risen quite a bit since it's release in Australia. The first three I bought were about A$20 each, now they're A$38

 

Anyway, I have a freezer half full of both fresh and expired film, I'll be right for a while. It's just quality color chemicals I worry about, mainly E6, I may have to resort to buying the cheaper ones.

[AlanKlein]

Using Freestyle as a barometer, 17 months ago I bought a 3-pack of Kodak Gold 200, 36ex. for $10.61. Today it's $30.

All through 2021 you would see, "Back in Stock on XXX" which was usually 4-6 weeks later. When it did show up it was much higher, run out quickly, and the process would start all over again. What I see here is maybe a supply CHAIN problem and not a raw materials or demand problem. Freestyle has to wait on Kodak, Kodak has to wait on a full staff for full production, being at full production is waiting on... etc, etc.

So my hope is that this will indeed iron itself out over time.

Higher prices are across the board. So while supply chains may be causing problems, the overall trend is higher prices in the future. Also, the reason for supply chain problems is that while many people were out of work not producing or making deliveries, government checks to unemployed people kept the demand up. So the ability to meet that demand with additional supply and transportation was down. That causes higher prices. So it still goes back to more printing of currency, which is the definition of inflation.

[AlanKlein]

I usually buy film on Amazon and have noticed a lot of variability in prices, whether it's shipped directly from them or from 3rd-party vendors. Prices can vary considerably from week to week, with stock-outs seeming more frequent and lasting longer. If one is patient and looks around enough, though, you can still find some reasonably good deals.

Keep an eye on expiry dates when buying from Amazon. I found that was a problem and went back to B and H which had fresher film.

[m42dave]

Keep an eye on expiry dates when buying from Amazon. I found that was a problem and went back to B and H which had fresher film.

 

I've never had a problem yet, either from Amazon or any other vendors who sell on their site.

[brett_rogers]

And your point is...?

 

My POINT is that having pointed the finger at others— lest you be unfairly viewed as being hypocritical—perhaps you should back up the unsupported impressionistic blather (quoted below) with some "data" yourself.

 

Or is this only required in connection with opinions other than your own?

 

"Obviously current events have a lot to do with price and availability."

 

With respect, I'm curious how long and how closely you've been watching film prices. "Current events" aren't the issue. Both Fujifilm and Kodak have steadily jacked prices and cut selection for at least the past 5-6 years, dramatically so in the past 2-3 years.

 

Film is a residual market. Magical thinking aside, demand for film is miniscule now. Anyone announcing a "film revival" has to explain why there's been no resurgence of labs. Dwayne's plainly enjoys a "last man standing" position. Surviving labs in Toronto do well because of the mass extinction small of pro labs and cheap Noritsu/Fuji minilab C-41 processing.

 

Used gear prices? Whatever the market will bear.

 

Make an effort this time instead of the usual gaslighting.

[c_watson1]

But then, there are those who discuss facts and those who dismiss facts.

 

"There is indeed a revival. The amount of money made by manufacturing and selling film has increased and is still going up."

 

Still waiting for you to grace us with the source and time series data behind this claim. Facts? Show us, please. Otherwise, it's utterly meaningless.

 

Seems you and rogers perhaps missed the absence of any base numbers in Kodak's Ed Hurley's widely-quoted 2020 comments linked below. Without them, the percentage increases he claims don't mean much or show the actual $ magnitude. No auditor of Kodak financial statements would let that go by. And Kodak stock isn't rated "buy."

 

https://kosmofoto.com/2020/01/eastman-kodaks-still-film-production-more-than-doubled-in-the-last-four-years/

Edited March 14, 2022 by c_watson|1

[q.g._de_bakker]

"There is indeed a revival. The amount of money made by manufacturing and selling film has increased and is still going up."

 

Still waiting for you to grace us with the source and time series data behind this claim. Facts? Show us, please. Otherwise, it's utterly meaningless.

 

Seems you and rogers perhaps missed the absence of any base numbers in Kodak's Ed Hurley's widely-quoted 2020 comments linked below. Without them, the percentage increases he claims don't mean much or show the actual $ magnitude. No auditor of Kodak financial statements would let that go by. And Kodak stock isn't rated "buy."

 

Eastman Kodak's still film production more than doubled in the last four years

 

Yes. There will always be non-believers and deniers.

Why don't you try to proof the unreliability of such reports? All you do is try to convince us that you have a superior insight into what's going on, though it is evident that it does not go beyond - how did someone put it? - "unsupported impresionistic blather".

Even you must have noticed (or am i too optimistic?) that you dismiss suupporting information, offering nothing in support of either that dismissal nor your unsupported impressionistic blather.

You do create an impression doing so. But it is not of someone who can talk on this subject with any credibility.

[c_watson1]

Yes. There will always be non-believers and deniers.

Why don't you try to proof the unreliability of such reports? All you do is try to convince us that you have a superior insight into what's going on, though it is evident that it does not go beyond - how did someone put it? - "unsupported impresionistic blather".

Even you must have noticed (or am i too optimistic?) that you dismiss suupporting information, offering nothing in support of either that dismissal nor your unsupported impressionistic blather.

You do create an impression doing so. But it is not of someone who can talk on this subject with any credibility.

 

I rest my case. Enjoy your fact/data-free alternate reality on this and on so many other PN topics. Do investigate the meaning of "critical thinking" sometime.

Edited March 14, 2022 by c_watson|1

[tommyfilmist]

places on amazon selling a single roll of portra 100 in 36 exposure 35mm for 28$

[Kent T]

Hi everyone - please let's be respectful and keep conversation civil, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I thought it would be good to share.

 

With that said, I paid a visit to a local Walgreens and thought maybe it can help you on the State side, the 3 pack c41 kodak is already at 27.99$ in their computer, but the sticker was not replaced, I scooped up what they had and took a photo of the sticker price, they honored it, it beats anything the pro stores offer by 3$ a pack in the least, and that is if they had the stock (B&H does not).

 

[ATTACH=full]1420180[/ATTACH]

 

Still overpriced. Fuji Superia Extra 400 in 3 36/Exp rolls at Wal-Mart is $18.99. Much better than UltraMax. I buy lots of it too, in my area. FYI (as you're a Photo.Net member).