Looking for a good manual Nikon SLR for student...

[evan_parker]

Does anyone have a particular recommendation for a good Nikon manual

camera, used? The FM10 sucks due to its fault metering at exposure

times greater than 1/8th of a second (this may just be one camera),

and I can't afford a new FM2, so it's off to *Bay or KEH.com.

I started doing some research, and I'm particularly intrigued by the

Nikkormat FTn and FT2. They seem very durable, they have a TTL meter.

Unfortunately, they don't take AI lenses (BTW... can AI cameras take

non-AI lenses, and can non-AI cameras take AI lenses?). I stopped

caring about that when I saw the 50mm 1.4 lenses... so fast (esp.

from a guy used to Canon Rebels). Any other suggestions?

[paul_frank]

Some my disagree with me, but I think it makes little sense to invest in a non AI nikon setup at this point. Stick to the AI/AIS if you want manual. The FM-10 is plastic and not built for the elements, but I wouldn't say it 'sucks' for a student. And I'll bet that was one example with the problem you mention, even though you really aren't that specific. What exactly was 'wrong'? was the meter inoperative while the shutter speed dial was slower than 1/8? were all photographs underexposed at shutter speeds longer than 1/8?

 

Other manual cameras include the FEs and then there's the FM - which should be cheaper than the FM2.

[mskovacs]

FTn uses banned mercury batteries. FT2 uses silver oxide or lithium batteries, readily available. You may also consider the FT3. Its identical to the FT2 but uses AI lenses. Unfortunately it is also rarer and priced higher on the used market.

 

For the most part, non-AI cameras can use any lens with a meter coupling prong (non-AI, AI or AI-S) but the non-AI lenses don't function fully (or at all) with AI bodies. The prong is kind of a pain to deal with IMO but shouldn't be much hassle if you rarely change lenses.

 

Honestly, I think you'd like a clean, used FM2n the best. FM is OK but the screen is very dim and isn't interchangeable (type K), although it could be modified by a repairman. FE/FE2/F3 are nice too if you don't mind an electronic camera.

 

What's your budget?

[richard_cochran]

The Nikkormats are fine, if they're in good working condition.

If you have one of the older ones that wants mercury batteries, get a

<a href="http://www.criscam.com/mba.htm">CRIS adapter</a> to

allow you to use easily available and environmentally safer

silver oxide batteries. The older pre-AI cameras will work fine

with pre-AI, AI, and AIS lenses. They just need the meter

coupling prong. If you have autofocus or series E lenses,

you may need to have a coupling prong added, but that's a simple

job. There are quite a few optically nice pre-AI lenses available

for peanuts these days.

[gib]

you might want to consider the FG as well.

[Guest]

Hell, pretty much all the models have something going for them.<p>You might want to browse <a href="http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/htmls/knowledge_main.htm" >Photography in Malaysia</a>, a superb and offbeat site with lots of pictures, including viewfinders and buttons and all those things that will help you see what the camera's like to use. Plenty on the Nikkormats there, too.

[gary_watson]

Though your FM10 may have been a dud, they're not known for baked-in metering problems. I'd forget getting a relic Nikon body for the reasons elaborated above, none of which are trivial.The Cosina-made bodies are plasticky compared to vintage "heavy metal" Nikons, but they are reliable and, above all, fixable--something that can't be said for older Nikkormats with bum meters.

[david_coons]

Even �

 

I would agree that the Nikomat is a great student manual camera as well as a solid back up. I have an EL w/ a 50 mm that is very accurate, dependable and will take older Nikon lens that are easily purchased on the cheap. IF you do get one bring at least one camera with like lens and check the meter against. You can always make adjustments with the ASA setting. With that said I was selling mine and let me know if your interested. It can be viewed here: I just don�t need it anymore � but will miss it regardless.

 

Note remove space in url

 

http://cgi.e bay.com/ws/e BayISAPI.dll ViewItem&item=1950406930&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:US:1

 

 

Item # 1950406930

[joel_becker1]

Get an Nikkormat FTn. It's a great camera. The one I use used to be my grandfather's. You can use the zinc-air replacement battery instead of mercury cells, or you can get mercury cells from www.px625.com. There are other adapters sold for the batteries.

 

When buying lenses, however, make sure you get AI lenses. All AI lenses (and many AI-s lenses) were sold with the meter coupling prong. This is the prong that indexes the older Nikkormat and F cameras. So you can indeed use an AI lens on the Nikkormat FTn. The added advantage is that you can use the AI lens on a newer Nikon camera in the future. Buying non-AI lenses is a losing proposition, unless you find a great deal.

 

If you can, check the FTn's meter in the store. Attach a lens and put a battery in. The meter should at least appear to be working.

[cd thacker]

I have a Nikkormat ELW that works great. What a solid camera it is, and a joy to use. But what Gary says about repairs is true - in the quite unlikely event that a meter repair is needed, getting it done can be difficult. Since they're pretty cheap, you might consider buying two, so that you have backup. On the other hand, though, you should be able to find a good used FM2n of recent vintage for not too much money. Don't think you'd find any repair problems there (and even less liklihood of needing to).

[nstock]

Either the Nikkormat or the FM are good starting points. The Fm2N is good because it has a 1/250 synch speed for flash (so you can fill outdoors w/o using ND filter if you are using fast film).

My .02.

[mskovacs]

If you plan to be a flash user, you may also prefer the FT2/FT3 over the other Nikkormats because they have a prism mounted hot shoe instead of using the hard-to-find and fragile accessory shoe.

[matt_m__toronto_]

my student camera was an FG-20. worked great and really got me moving. if you could, i'd gor for an fm2 or an f3...little more advanced and you wouldn't feel the need to upgrade in a year or two if really interested.

 

also, start off with a simple one or two lens setup. i'd suggest the plain ol' 50mm or a 35 and 85mm combo if ambitious

[jose f.]

Bet the metering 'problem' with the FM10 is the same problem people have with the Voigtlander Bessa R, since they're built on the same chassis. The R delivers all of its marked shutter speeds when the meter is set at ISO100; each time the speed moves up a notch, the next lowest speed drops out because of the way the system is coupled. I forget where the problem occurs, but the complaint usually comes from people rating film at 800, 1600 and up. Might be a chart in the manual showing the coupling range.

As the others said, I'd stick to AI and AIS lenses if you're assembling a Nikon MF kit, but there's really nothing fundamental wrong with an FM10. KEH 'bargains' used to be good users; haven't bought anything for a year or two.

[douglas_green1]

If the FM2 is out of your budget, I would suggest that the potential choices for you would be the FM, FG, or FE. Any of these can be found for well under $200 with a good 50mm lens on auction sites, and not too much more at dealers. I agree that the Pre-AI cameras such as the Nikkormats are probably not the most cost effective choices at this point.

 

The FM is a match-needle metering camera that is very similar to the FM2, except for lack of a 1/2000 and 1/4000 shutter speeds, and slower flash sync. The FE is basically an FM with an electronic shutter and aperture priority automation added. But it still works great in metered manual mode, and other than being battery dependent, it offers everything that the FM does, at PLUS aperture priority auto-exposure mode, for the same cost 2nd hand as an FM. Another model that is similar to the FE is the FG, which is even lighter and more compact than the FE and FM. The FG is also a VERY easy camera to use in metered manual mode. The ONE useful feature that it lacks for a student would be a Depth of Field Preview button.

 

In general, if I were you, I'd rank the choices as FE, FM, FG, in declining order of preference for a student.

[todd_phillips1]

If you are going to use this camera for some photo classes, the prof may require you to pull the batteries out and learn how to use a hand held meter. The Nikkormats are good and the "F"s or F2's even better...but they are probably more expensive than even a FM. But an original F will last through almost anything and last forever (not talking meter head...but they CAN be fixed if needed, see cameraquest.com).

[craig_bridge]

What ISO setting and EI levels are you dealing with on your FM10?

 

The FTN Photomic, FTn, FT2, and FE all have funky low EI behaviors. Somewhere around ISO 320 f/4 1/8th (their meters would show over exposure instead of under exposure. Easily detected by changing to a smaller aperture and the over exposure not going away.

 

All camera meters have a low EI limitation and I'd rather have one which has a behavior that is easily detected as being opposite of what should be happening or drops out so you know the meter is out of range and inaccurate.

[harry_akiyoshi]

The FM10 really only meters down to EV 2 or so with 100 ISO film. Well, in practice, mabye 3 or 4, although it's better with my 50mm 1.4 than the zoom it came with. If you try to use it in lower light, it won't work. Simple as that. You can make great photos with an FM-10; if you already own one, I don't see any reason you should buy another camera. Oh, and incidentally, the Nikon 50mm 1.4s mostly suck. Don't even bother unless you feel that the difference between 1.8 and 1.4 is more important than resolution, flare-resistance, constrast, size, light-fallof characteristics, and bokeh. I did, but much later discovered Fuji NPZ and now no longer care. Besides, if you want a really good 50mm f/1.4, you ought to buy into Pentax instead of Nikon.

 

The FM-10 is a fine camera for a student. You just need to learn how to use it instead of thinking that it's faulty. If you're trying to meter, and what you're photograph is pretty dark, and your meter is going crazy, it's a good sign that you're exceeding the limitations of the camera. And believe me, most of these cameras aren't going to be that much better. There are a few that are really great for low-light photography--the FE comes to mind--because in auto mode, they meter off the film plane to give very accurate exposures out to a couple of minutes. But the majority of cameras, like the FM or FM2, aren't going to be an incredible improvement.

[harry_akiyoshi]

Oh, sorry -- misread your post and thought you were writing from personal experience about the "meter fault." If you don't already own an FM-10, there are other cameras. . .

 

The FE is very nice, for the money. Harder to repair than the FM, though.

 

If you want a really cheap manual camera, buy a minolta or a pentax. You can get great deals on excellent student cameras. This is probably taboo on the Nikon forum, but if you're not planning on buying autofocus lenses and moving up the Nikon line later on, it's not really worth buying into the Nikon system as a beginner. Some of the old Minoltas are built like tanks, and Rokkor lenses (stick with primes) aren't bad. For student use, the difference between a Rokkor and a Nikkor is so minimal that you might as well save money. The downside is that the Nikon people will make fun of you, but you might be able to live with it, given that you've saved a pile of money and your pictures are as good.

[gary_watson]

I wonder how the many owners of 50/1.4 Nikkors will cope after learning their lenses "mostly suck"?

[mskovacs]

LOL! I sure hope the clients I've sold prints to made with my AI 50/1.4 don't find out!

[constance_cook]

I'm scarred, but I'll manage! Also, I guess I have to trash the good shots I got with my FM10. Remarkable -- I had no idea my life was so empty.

 

Conni

[aasmund_aadnoy]

I bought a FT2 a month ago, and I've had no unpleasant surprises. It is much cheaper used than F2 or F3, from what I've seen. It is also lighter, and the mechanism that prevents the back from opening up seems a little unstable to me. Other than that - no complaints.

[gib]

regarding Pentax 50mm f1.4 lenses - you have to watch out for yellowing with these. I was out shooting today with a Pentax Spotmatic and used four lenses : 28 f3.5, 55 f2, 50 f1.4, and a 105 f2.8 (a very inexpensive set of lenses and camera). Ontario is snow rich right now and I knew my 50 was yellowed but it was quite striking when I put it on the camera.

 

As for the Nikkor 50 f1.4, there are a lot of opinions here on photo.net that the 50 f2 and 50 f1.8 are less expensive and as good. Depends if you want to shoot wide open.

 

My day today was with 200 ISO and I shot mainly at f5.6 to f11 with the lenses I mentioned.

[mskovacs]

Are the Pentax screw mount 50/1.4 lenses radioactive? These often yellow with age due to radiation damage.