Linhof Technika Serial Number Questions

[flozki]

thanks. but you mean 1958/59 ? or really 48/49 ?

just curious as i read somewhere IV where made between 56-64.

also the screwheads for the front lid have two points instead a slot.one of that little things thats different on various pictures i see. .

i think the older ones had the sloted flat-head screws

[bob_salomon]

That serial number is from 48 or 49.

[Mats77]

Hey Bob 

How old ist my Linhof Technika III - Number 22861

Thanks

[bob_salomon]

Sorry, no record of that number. That means it is not post war and not a lll

[Mats77]

Thank you Bob. Maybe it is not a Technika III. Please see the attached image. 

[bob_salomon]

Looks earlier then the lll

[Mats77]

 

Thank you!

[Glenn McCreery]

This looks a lot like my old 13cmx18cm Linhof Technika glass plate camera that dates to 1938. My serial number is 3241, so your camera is probably more recent, perhaps just post-war?. It looks like it takes modern film holders?

Note: I started this thread way back in 2003 to track down the origin of this camera. Read some of the early posts on this thread to find more information. Unfortunately the early photos have been deleted, but the writing remains.

[Glenn McCreery]

Here is some more information  on pre-war Technikas from Wim Mulder in The Netherlands sent to me through PNet. You can find this post on page four of this thread.

Glenn

 

Posted August 3, 2013

<p>Going back to my original question on page 1 concerning my 13 x 18 cm Linhof, I received this most interesting response from Wim Mulder through Photo.net,</p>

<blockquote ><br /> ************************************************************************** <br /> This message was sent by Wim Mulder. You can check this user profile using the link below: <br /> <a href="/photodb/user?user_id=7612680">http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=7612680</a> <br /> ************************************************************************** <br /> "Dear Mr McCreery, I'm the owner of a Pre War Linhof Technika 13x18 camera with serial Nr 3289. This is just 48 camera's more away on the production line then yours. <br />Probebly made the same day. These camera's where made in the year 1936 -and so on-the same year as the Olympic Cames in Berlin. My camera has olso a number in white paint on the left side of the body. The number is 172, and I was wondeing if there are more camera's with an indetification number. <br /> <br />Probably the camera was used for rent, or belonged to a press agency. <br /> <br />I think a lot of camera's ( Leica and Linhof) were used during the Olympic Cames. <br /> <br />So probably there are more of these numbered Camera's. Maybe yours? <br /> <br />It is a pity that all Linhof argives are lost in the war. But I am trying to make a list of owners of pre war Linhofs. <br /> <br />Yours sincerely, Wim Mulder (The Netherlands) "</blockquote>

<blockquote >My camera does not have an identification number similar to the 172 on Wim's. Also of interest is that there is an almost identical camera currently listed on eBay with a lower serial number (not my listing).<br /> <br /> <br /> </blockquote>

Edited November 25, 2022 by Glenn McCreery

[bob_salomon]

3241 is a 1947 Technika 1 

[Glenn McCreery]

Bob Solomon says, "Looks earlier then the lll"

When I zoom in on the second Mats77 photo, the lens board says, Model II.

According to Camera-wiki.org at,    http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Linhof_Standard_and_Technika_II  the Technika II was produced from about 1937 through the forties. It looks like the film holder was replaced with a more modern and useful version.

The Compur dial set shutter looks pre-war. You can date the shutter by its serial number at,  http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Compur_serial_numbers

Correction: my old 13x18 cm glass plate camera dates to 1936 according to Wim Mulder, above, not 1938 as I originally stated.

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Glenn McCreery

[cc1664886115]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:29 AM, Glenn McCreery said:

 

Correction: my old 13x18 cm glass plate camera dates to 1936 according to Wim Mulder, above, not 1938 as I originally stated.

 

Hi Glenn,  Bob was right your 13x18 (3241) is a 1947 Technika II. 

The Technika II arrived about 1945 near the end of WWII. It is nearly identical to the wartime Technika's but can easily be identified by the vertical metal stripes along the front of the housing (the wartime model had leather wrapping around the front). Another good identifier is the 2 lensboard clips (first appearing on the wartime model 1940-1945).

The II was only available in 9x12 13x18 & 18x24.

The 18x24 is so rare that not many exist.

The 9x12 II was quickly replaced by the III in October 1946 but quite a few still exist.

The 13x18 II lasted the longest as the 5x7 III was not available to replace it until 1950.

The first Technika was made in 1934 but it pre dated the name. The same camera was given the Technika label in 1936. The Technika design evolved a bit until 1940ish when the style with the 2 lensboard clips was made. 

Hope this helps you find where your camera fits in the Technika history.

Cheers,

Chris

Edited April 25, 2023 by cc1664886115

[Glenn McCreery]

Thanks for the information Chris. The camera does have the vertical metal stripes and the two lensboard clips. The camera does not have a Technika label, but has the letters "DRGM" and "DRP" engraved or stamped on top of the film holder. Here is a photo of the rotating back of the camera. I am not sure if the back is for glass plates or a single sheet film holder. I would have thought that every large format camera manufacturer would be using a double sheet Graphic style film holder by 1947.

[Glenn McCreery]

Here is a top view of the camera.

[Glenn McCreery]

The top view of the 1939 "Tecknika Prospekt" at https://linhof.com/en/historische-kameras-2/ shows the same  film holder with the same "DRGM" and "DRP" letters on top as mine.

The 1946 Technika III shown at the same site shows, I think, a more modern film holder. However, the camera shown is a 9x12 cm model rather than 9x18 cm.

Some Google searching finds the definitions for DRGM and DRP at Acronym Attic (a very suitable name!) at https://www.acronymattic.com/Deutsches-Reichs-Gebrauchs-Muster-(DRGM).html

"What does D. R. G. M. mean? This mark can be found on many antique items that were made in Germany and Austria from 1891 until just before the end of the Second World War 1945. The mark D. R. G. M. stands for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs Muster this is a utility model patent for commercially applicable inventions. D. R. P. or D. R Pat.

 

The models that has the letters DRP on the left and to the right DRGM on the front of the camera means that they were made before World War II, because DRP means 'Deutsches Reichs Patent' (German Reich Patent) and DRGM means 'Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchs Muster' (basically a copyright for the name). In post WW2 models you will find DBP and DBGM. They switched from "Reichs" to "Bundes" (German Federal Patent)."

 

Since my camera has the letters DRP and DRGM rather than DBP and DBGM, I conclude that it was made before the end of WW II.

[cc1664886115]

10 hours ago, Glenn McCreery said:

The top view of the 1939 "Tecknika Prospekt" at https://linhof.com/en/historische-kameras-2/ shows the same  film holder with the same "DRGM" and "DRP" letters on top as mine.

The 1946 Technika III shown at the same site shows, I think, a more modern film holder. However, the camera shown is a 9x12 cm model rather than 9x18 cm.

Some Google searching finds the definitions for DRGM and DRP at Acronym Attic (a very suitable name!) at https://www.acronymattic.com/Deutsches-Reichs-Gebrauchs-Muster-(DRGM).html

"What does D. R. G. M. mean? This mark can be found on many antique items that were made in Germany and Austria from 1891 until just before the end of the Second World War 1945. The mark D. R. G. M. stands for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs Muster this is a utility model patent for commercially applicable inventions. D. R. P. or D. R Pat.

 

The models that has the letters DRP on the left and to the right DRGM on the front of the camera means that they were made before World War II, because DRP means 'Deutsches Reichs Patent' (German Reich Patent) and DRGM means 'Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchs Muster' (basically a copyright for the name). In post WW2 models you will find DBP and DBGM. They switched from "Reichs" to "Bundes" (German Federal Patent)."

 

Since my camera has the letters DRP and DRGM rather than DBP and DBGM, I conclude that it was made before the end of WW II.

Note: DRP DRGM. It was used until 1949 and in some cases as late as 1953

These German patent codes lasted long after the war and are not a good method for determining the age. Lots of arguments and misconceptions on the Rolleiflex forums as they also prolifically used these patent codes.

[cc1664886115]

21 hours ago, Glenn McCreery said:

Thanks for the information Chris. The camera does have the vertical metal stripes and the two lensboard clips. The camera does not have a Technika label, but has the letters "DRGM" and "DRP" engraved or stamped on top of the film holder. Here is a photo of the rotating back of the camera. I am not sure if the back is for glass plates or a single sheet film holder. I would have thought that every large format camera manufacturer would be using a double sheet Graphic style film holder by 1947.

This back is for the 13x18 thin metal plate holders known in German as Millionfalz... 

Millionfalz plate holders were made in several different sizes (9x12, 13x18, 18x24 etc...) and held a single glass plate. A film sheath insert could also be used to hold a single sheet of film instead of a glass plate.

The plate backs were popular in Europe until the early 1950's and were even found on the 1950 Technika III 5x7 (13x18) & 4x5 (9x12). Most of the post-war Linhof cameras that were sent to North America were fitted with a spring back to accept the 5x7 double sided holders that were popular in the USA. By the mid 1950's the Linhof plate backs are phased out and are no longer made when the Technika IV models are released in 1957. However they did continue to make an adapter plate that allowed you to use the Millionfalz holders in the modern spring backs...

13x18 Millionfalz are not as common to find as the 9x12 but they can be found from European shops or German ebay. Many will come with the film sheaths inside but in my experience using film with the filmsheath is a total pain... just stick to the glass plates, they are fun, beautiful, and still available today. They are far slower speed than film, say 10 ISO, but you can use this to your advantage as well... 

If you want to use 5x7 filnholders with this back you will need to invent a workaround. 13x18 is closer to 5x7 than 9x12 is to 4x5 so you may be able to make it fit with what you have... I don't have a 13x18 plate back so i'm not so sure... You probably will need to get creative...

These pre-III Technikas did not have the interchangeable backs of the III, IV, V 5x7 cameras. You could remove them by unscrewing the corner tabs but the ring for rotation is slightly smaller on the II and earlier cameras so you can not just drop in a later 5x7 spring back.

 

[cc1664886115]

21 hours ago, Glenn McCreery said:

Here is a top view of the camera.

Beautiful camera Glenn! This has all the hallmarks of a Technika II. It has the vertical metal stripes as well as brads attaching the struts to the door, (wartime models used screws). The very last 13x18 II's had the screw in the center of the front standard base (missing on your camera) moved to the right hand side (when viewed from the front).

[Glenn McCreery]

On 4/26/2023 at 6:29 PM, cc1664886115 said:

If you want to use 5x7 filnholders with this back you will need to invent a workaround. 13x18 is closer to 5x7 than 9x12 is to 4x5 so you may be able to make it fit with what you have... I don't have a 13x18 plate back so i'm not so sure... You probably will need to get creative...

These pre-III Technikas did not have the interchangeable backs of the III, IV, V 5x7 cameras. You could remove them by unscrewing the corner tabs but the ring for rotation is slightly smaller on the II and earlier cameras so you can not just drop in a later 5x7 spring back.

 

Thanks for all the information, Chris. You convinced me that the camera is a post-war Technika II.

What I did for a camera back was to build an adapter for a 4x5 Graphic back that I had handy (a Graflok back would have been more versatile). Rather than remove the glass plate back, I folded it down and inserted the adapter plate with the 4x5 back, held in place by the sliding bar on top of the revolving back. It worked fine and I made a series of photos using it. I still have the camera and the 4x5  back, but have not used it since I purchased a much more modern 4x5 Linhof Kardan Standard in about 1980.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Glenn McCreery

[cc1664886115]

Glenn that is a great solution! 

[andrew_mcdonald3]

On 3/7/2003 at 9:03 PM, bob_salomon said:

3241 is a 1947 Technika II.

Hi Bob,

I have a Technika Master, serial # on the accessory shoe says "B 541138". When I bought it, years ago, the seller said it was a 50 Jahre version, but had no documentation to that effect, and the camera has no specific markings. It's in great shape and everything works, but wondering if there's a way to verify without paperwork. 

Thanks!