tanya_richardson1 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 My Uncle gave me his Nikkormat FT2. It came with a Nikkor 50mm f2 and a close focus Vivitar auto focus 70-150mm F3.8 (which seems difficult to mount, but that is what he had on it when he gave it to me). I am using a hand held light meter because the light meter on the camera is no longer working. I'm too impatient to deal with the flash and the flash mount on this camera is broken so I don't have to worry about it anyway. I still love the camera and it works great for natural light settings when I am taking portraits. Here is my dilemma. My point and shoot camera broke just before the birth of our 3rd son in Dec. The Nikkormat is the only camera I have. It isn't meeting my needs. I would like to use an SLR for all occasions instead of using the point and shoot for auto focus and flash snapshots. We considered digital, however after playing around with a few cameras and missing several 'kodak' moments because of the delay between pushing the shutter release and the shutter actually releasing, and not having the $2000.00 to buy one that I will enjoy using, it is out of the question. I love the Nikkormat and how manual it is. I am not sure I would enjoy a computerized camera because I would never use its programmed modes, etc. I also don't want to deal with having to take it to the shop everytime something malfunctions. Yet, because I take a lot of pictures of my little boys (who never hold still long enough for me to focus) and 20 little nieces and nephews (a photography nightmare trying to focus on a half a dozen moving targets!) I definitely need the option of an auto focus. And since I don't enjoy dealing with the flash (I know I'd get better at it if I were HAD to do it more), I probably need the option of an automatic flash too. My understanding is that the Nikkor lenses can be used on all Nikon bodies. Is that correct? If so, I would like to use a body that I can interchange lenses with the nikkormat. Any ideas and suggestions on an older camera body/lenses that will fill my needs and make me happy? Tanya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_parker Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 If the idea is to take autofocus pictures of kids, then maybe a basic point and shoot film camera would be a good idea. Otherwise, I would mount the 50mm f2 on the nikkormat, load it with 800 speed fuji print film, and start practising my focusing skills. This would be a great setup for kid pix. There are plenty of good autofocus nikon slr bodies out there (6006, N80, N90 etc), but many of the newer ones won't meter with the 50 f2, not familiar with the 'vivitar auto focus 70-150 f3.8' but it s likely if you were to buy an autofocus nikon slr, you might buy a new lens at the same ti me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 "Ahh, Grasshopper, does the carp thrive best in the hand or in the pond?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd peach seattle, washi Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 <i> My understanding is that the Nikkor lenses can be used on all Nikon bodies. Is that correct? If so, I would like to use a body that I can interchange lenses with the nikkormat. </i> <p> It's true that Nikon has some of the best 'compatibility' of lens mounts up and down through the ages, but there are limits/pitfalls. Your FT2 uses a 'pre-AI' or 'Non-AI' lens, and we won't be able to tell without more info if either of your lenses are usable on any AF body. It's possible that your lenses are actually AI compatible in one form or another, and that they would work on some AF bodies (of course in MF mode). Here's a pretty good link for explaining the various lens mount types in Nikon:<br> <a href="http://www.nikonlinks.com/unklbil/Nomenclature.htm">http://www.nikonlinks.com/unklbil/Nomenclature.htm</a> <p> My personal favorite AF camera that takes MF glass for a 'rational price' used is the N90 or N90s. These are pretty competitively priced, they AF well with AF glass, and they work in a predictable fashion with my MF glass. <p> Others sing the praises of the 8008s, a camera that I've never run across (it was popular in the roughly ten years I turned my back on the equipment world). It would have slower AF than the N90, but it's a body that has somewhat more 'mechanical' controls that you might find pleasing. <p> Oh yeah: have you checked the camera's battery? Some 'dead meters' are simply dead batteries or oxidation in the battery compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 Nikkormats use a sliding variable resistor around the shutter speed ring. With little usage; or dirt; the resistor can get a dead spots; or crud on it wiper. My Nikkormat needs its shutter speeds to be used at different settings; to get the meter to read. Moving the shutter speed arm sometimes make the Nikkormats meter work again; assuming ones battery is ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_warn Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 You are going to hate the first part of my answer. The best AF camera for shooting active kids is the very expensive F5. It will actually allow you to select one child out of 10-15 kids playing a made up game called socball and track that one child for the AF. It's called Dynamic AF and I am simply amazed at how well it works. The F5 has a 256 element color metering system and I suspect it is used as a crude image sensor to track a subject for the AF. A much cheaper alternative is the N8008s, commonly available for as low as 150.00 on ee-bay. This camera requires a fast lens or a fair amount of light for the AF to work well, use 100 watt bulbs in you lamps and it can be almost as fast as the N90. It is also about the size and weight of your Nikkormat. DO NOT attempt to mount a lens to any of the Nikon AF cameras unless you are sure that they are AI compliant. If you try to mount a non AI lens it can break the tab that couples to the lens aperture ring. I prefer my N8008s to my N90s, it is less bulky and has 1 stop increments on the control dial that is much faster handling. With an AI compliant lens you can shoot in Aperture preferred or Manual Modes, Program and Shutter preferred will not work. Metering will default to Center weighted with these lenses. You can use a flash on your Nikkormat, that is the cheapest option. Get a flash bracket and a Vivitar 285 at your local camera shop. Your Nikkormat will have a PC outlet marked x that you plug the flash into. Set your shutter speed to 1/125 or slower and set the lens aperture to match the setting on the flash and you are ready to go. I believe that your Nikkormat FT2 is an AI body. I am not an expert on the later Nikkormats. One quick way to tell is, does your camera have a round pin that sticks throught the slot on the ear mounted to the lens? If it does not have this pin then the camera is an AI body and both your lenses should be AI compliant. Any good independent camera shop can tell you this, the chain stores like Ritz will probably say they don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkroommike Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 The original AI camera bodies (FE, FM, FT3) had a "flipper" for meter coupling the new AI lenses to the body that could be flipped out of the way when mounting one of the old non-AI lenses. The older lenses (with the solid meter prongs not the newer ventilated or "bunny ear" prongs) could then be used for stop down metering. Mounting an old non-AI lens on some of the newer bodies without the "flipper" can damage the body's lens mount. The good news is that there are still firms out there that will AI modify your older lenses, look for one that dows it properly on a milling machine. On the other hand it's possible to put together a very good kit of mixed AI, AI-S, E-series and AF lenses for not all that money, my kit even includes a Q-series 35/2 that was factory AI-converted back when Nikon still offered this service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_kelly1 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 1.There are no Nikon autofocus bodies that will accept the lenses you already own. If you must have autofocus you are going to have to buy an AF body and AF lenses as well. On the other hand most AF lenses, except the"G" type which have no aperture ring, can be used on your Nikkormat. You can even have them fitted with the "rabbit ears" that couple to its metering prong for about $15-20 per lens. 2. It is not true that the N8008s has "somewhat more mechanical" controls- they are nearly identical to those on the N90/N90s You push a button and turn a control wheel to perform most operations on all these cameras. The only autofocus Nikon that mimics manual controls is the F4. It is beautifully made but heavy even in its lightest configuration and its autofocus, while probably adequate for your purposes, is a bit slow by today's standards (as is that of the N8008s, a camera of which I am very fond for other reasons).The F4 was discontinued in 1996 but a good used one still costs at least $600 -and up! 3.In order to make sensible recommendations the forum would have to know your budget for body and lenses. We'd also need to know whether you would be content with just a 50mm to begin with, or whether you want to cover a range of focal lengths from moderately wide to portrait telephoto, either with a set of three fast aperture prime lenses or a single, convenient butnecessarily slower zoom. And do you require a pop-up flash or are you willing to go with a seperate, shoe-mounted flash? Or just use fast film and no flash at all? Complicated, all these choices, but unavoidable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 The Nikkormat FT-2 is a pre-AI camera. Nikon introduced AI (Auto Indexing) way back in 1977. In order to marry modern AF electronics and an all-mechanical camera design from some 30 years ago, you'll have to make some compromises, perhaps a lot of compromises. It is doable but IMO you are much better off buying a modern camera and a few new lenses. You haven't specified your budget. If you have family pictures in mind and are interested in digital, a Coolpix that costs a few hundred dollars will do a good job. You don't necessarily have to get an SLR or DSLR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanya_richardson1 Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 First off, Thanks for the link, now I understand why the vivitar lens doesn't mount very easily! Yes, the camera accepts the non-AI lenses. Second of all, if Grasshopper knew if the carp did better in the hand or the pond, Grasshopper wouldn't have posted! LOL It seems that everyone feels that the modern camera might be the way to go. I have many concerns with that. Many people who own these seem to be frustrated with trying to operate all of the computerized controls and how awkward most of them are (I have been reading a lot of camera reviews lately). I am perfectly content using the older camera - It makes sense, I know where everything is at, and I don't have to try to remember which knob blows what whistle. I don't want to have to take the camera to the shop everytime something malfunctions (which is the problem I have started having with my point and shoot). My Nikkormat takes pictures with out a battery. I also understand that these newer cameras go through batteries like crazy. Is this correct? Finally, budget is an issue but if I need to, I will work with what I have before I can afford to spend on something that I will REALLY ENJOY. I suppose that is also why I ask for opinions. We really can't afford to spend a lot of money on something that requires a lot of maintenance, or on something that ends up being a total let down. I would like to put a system together for under $500.00 (another reason for buying old and used). But I don't know if this is realistic since I really don't know what I should be looking for. Ideally, yes, I would love a range of lenses, the faster the better, since I don't care much for flash. I would love to try a good wide angle lens and see how much more scenery I can capture in my pictures, as well as a nice portrait lens. The vivitar has been a lot of fun for taking some seriously close up shots. Flash and auto focus become an issue as I would like to use the camera when I would typically just pull out the point and shoot. Pop up would be easier, but mountable is fine. I have used mountable before but not on a regular enough basis for it to be quick and easy to use. I have used faster film only a couple of times. I have seen some terribly grainy looking 8X10's so I suppose that is why I have been leery of using it. 400 is what I currently use and it seems good for most occasions. Film speed is something I haven't considered and I will definitely give it a better try. Auto-focus speed isn't my first priority, since the only focus I have experienced is manual. I think I might be happy with something that focuses faster than I do. I would have a lot fewer missed candids - or would I become quickly spoiled with the autofocus and wish I had something faster? To sum up, I suppose I want to have my cake and eat it too!!! Priority one, Cost. Priority two, great lenses. Priority three, more point and shoot capabilities (auto focus, and flash). Priority four, compatibility with the nikkormat (no sense in owning a perfectly good body and not having any thing I can use on it too). Anxiously awaiting your replies, Tanya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Tanya: I shoot my 2 year old daughter (and her group of friends) and newborn daughter exlusively with manual focus 35mm Nikon gear as well as ancient medium format cameras. With my Nikons, I generally I use my 24mm (10%), 50mm (60%) and 105mm (30%) of the time. I think you just need to get practicing and use what you have. The FT2 is one of the most bulletproof cameras ever designed. For $100-200, you could get it professionally CLA'd and get the meter repaired and shoot for another lifetime. Luckily, it also uses silver oxide batteries and not the unavailable mercury cells. Outside of the meter, nothing tends to ever go on these cameras. Don't believe that AF will solve all of your problems: selecting focus points, recomposition adjustments, locking onto the wrong subject and managing all this can cause you to miss shots too. AF can be great at times but don't think it is an almighty deliverance from practice and good technique.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanya_richardson1 Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 What does CLA mean? Tanya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vedearduff Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 From the post by David Kelly. "1.There are no Nikon autofocus bodies that will accept the lenses you already own." This is not completely true. There are no current production AF bodies that will accept non-AI lenses, but the out of production F4 will. This body has a flip up AI coupling tab like that of the F3. I'm not sure about metering (I suspect that you would be limited to stop down), but the pre-AI lenses are otherwise useable on an F4. Vernon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_kelly1 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I'm with Mike on this one: First, get the meter fixed and a CLA on the FT2. Second, go to Keh.com and look for a used 24mm f2.8 manual focus Nikkor in "excellent" grade. You could buy it in non-AI configuration to save money but I'd get AI so it won't need to be modified if you buy a second, more recent body later. You have now spent about $400. When your budget permits, replace the Vivitar with a Nikkor 105mm f2.5 AIS. This is Nikon's best portrait lens and also a great lens for fast-paced playground activity. The AIS version comes with a built-in lens hood. Earlier versions used a clip-on type which fell off easily. You have now spent $600 and are done. Don't bother with a flash, just shoot Fuji Press 800 for color and Tri-X, pushed a stop when needed, for black and white. There are faster films than these when your subject is a black cat in a coal mine, but they are pricey! The rest is simply technique. Until you become skilled at "follow focus" (sports photographers used to practice this sitting next to a freeway with an empty camera) try "trap focus" -focus on where you think the kid is going and shoot when he gets there- and "zone focus." This last was the preferred method of the great Henri Cartier-Bresson. With the 50mm mounted, prefocus on 4 meters (12 feet), set the shutter to 125 and stop down as much as the light permits: f8 is ideal. Now just move your feet! "That's my life," HCB said once, "keeping a certain distance from things."......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_kelly1 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Vernon is correct about the F4, a wonderfully versatile camera you may want later, but way out of your budget for now.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 CLA = Clean, Lubricate and Adjust - at least take it to a camera tech and have him measure the shutter speeds for you - normally free. Its a good idea to get this done with your mechanical body. Mechanical shutters drift off specifications after long periods of time. Since this requires gutting the camera, its a good time to get the meter repaired, although access to the metering components is easier on the mechanical Nikkormats since its all built into the lens mount. Some people might just say to buy a different Nikkormat but these are all old cameras and will probably need a CLA sooner or later. If you state where you are located, someone can probably recommend a decent (honest) camera technician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 OK I just reread my post and want to clarify something: the tech doesn't need to gut the camera to test the shutter, only to CLA the camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanya_richardson1 Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 Thanks Mike. I live in Sacramento, CA. I took the nikkormat (and the yashica mat-124) to Pardee's just after my uncle gave them to me. They checked the speed on the nikkormat and said that it was 'pretty right on.' They didn't seem to want to define what 'pretty right on' meant so I left it at that. I have dealt with Precision Camera with my point and shoot and they seem to be a little more interested in answering questions than the folks at Pardee's. I guess I could take it over there for them to look at. (Along with the Yashica. The shutter didn't open for most of the pictures I took the last time I used it). It sounds like if I were to continue using the body that I have I should look at the AIS lenses in case I decide to get a different body at a later date. How do I make sure I am purchasing a good used lens? Where should I begin looking for these? How do I make sure I am not getting ripped off? Tanya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 How to purchase a used lens: (sorry I emailed this to you direct but now putting it on the board for all) First of all, I've bought all my bodies and lenses used, so I think I have a pretty good handle on this. 1. Hold it up to a light source and look through it to get an idea of how clean its internals are. Dust doesn't usually show up on film but its a bargaining point. Haze is a different story. Usually its caused by the glue holding elements together separating and is difficult/expensive to repair. Don't buy a lens with haze. Also, some lenses get a type of fungus growth. It can be cleaned but sometimes it mars the coatings permanently. Worse yet, the spores sometimes can cause a recurring problem. I'd stay away from fungus-infected lenses. 2. Move the aperture around and try to angle the light if you can see any oily material on them: they should be clean and dry. 3. Mount the lens on your body, open the film back, set the aperture to the smallest setting (f/22 or whatever), do a bulb exposure. The aperture blades should stop down all the way with no hesistation before the shutter even opens. Any hint of visible movement indicates a sticking aperture and a $50 repair. 4. Turn the focus all the way in and all the way out. It should be smooth with no rough spots. Rough spots indicate a bump that has bent the helicoid. If its really use, you might have to spend $50 to get the helicoids done. In the worse case, helicoids and sticky aperture together, your probably looking at $75 MAX, depending on the complication of the lens. (primes simpler than zooms) 5. Inspect the filter ring for dents: better yet, bring a filter and make sure it'll mount OK. 6. Buy the lens somewhere with a warranty unless you get a deal for $50-75 less than a camera shop. If you buy off eb@y, be prepared to shell out extra money to bring it up to spec. (same goes for cameras...been there, done that!) 7. Shoot an evenly lit, flat subject with the aperture wide open, the camera carefully paralleled on a tripod and process the films. If a lens takes a really hard knock, its possible to knock the elements out of alignment in which case the lens will never focus properly. That's all I can think of for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolf_lockwood Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Tanya, it seems to me you've had an odd mixture of good and not-so-good advice. Lots of it, too. But I don't think anyone has addressed your fear of overly complicated 'modern' cameras or of using flash with them. I have both manual and autofocus Nikons (including an FT2), and appreciate them all in their various ways, but there's not much question in my mind that an AF camera like the N8008 or the N6006 or the much mailgned F70 coupled with a Nikon flash (anything from the old SB-15 up to the current SB-28) would suit you perfectly. Using the flash with these bodies needs no brain at all, no mental gymnastics, no thinking. Turn the camera on, turn the flash on, and shoot. It can be that simple, simpler even than the basic point and shoot. You can certainly use the many controls on both camera and flash to manipulate this or that, but you absolutely don't need to. I have an F70 and F90x (Canadian/international designations -- N70 and N90s to you) and just traded an F801s/N8008s (dumb move), used with SB-22 and SB-24 flashes, and they just never fail to deliver the pic. My hit rate, even trying to grab kids running around, whether I'm bouncing flash off the ceiling or shooting straight, is nearly 100% all the time. And most of the time, I let the camera/flash do the work. Every once in a while I feel like using one of my manual bodies for the same sort of shooting, just because they feel good in my hand, but the hit rate drops. My eyes are lousy, so that explains part of it, but the newer cameras are verging on being foolproof. Note too that the N6006 and N70 have built-in pop-up flashes that work great with short zooms and around-the-house or in-the-yard sort of distances. You couldn't use your existing lenses but something like the Nikkor 28-70 3.5-4.5 AF zoom would be a great choice at under $200. An older but actually quite sharp 35-70 3.3-4.5 AF zoom would be half that or less. The body (any of the three I mentioned) would go for $175 to $275, and you'd just have enough left in your budget (or you might have to add a bit) for an SB-22/SB-23/SB-24. I'm talking KEH prices there (www.keh.com), not the unbearably awful auction site. Sure, you could have your FT2 CLA'd and add a couple of good Nikkor lenses, but you'll end up spending nearly as much dough. And you won't have a camera that reacts as quickly to a given situation with the same chance of getting a useful photo out of it. It was exactly the onset of kids that pushed me into AF a dozen or so years ago and I've never regretted it for an instant. Because my kid pictures are just plain better. Maybe you're an MF sort of person, in which case this blather is useless, but I suspect you're really looking for a point-and-shoot that's also a real camera when you want it to be. If so, find an N8008 or an N70 and I'd bet you'll be happy. Rolf in Toronto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_warn Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Tanya, I love the fact that you want to continue to use your Nikkormat. Make sure that any new lens you buy is an AI version or AI modified. That will allow you to use the lens on a newer AF body should you aquire one. AI lenses will mount to and work with the following AF Nikons. N2020 (really poor AF), N8008 and N8008S, N90 and N90s, F4, and the F5. I have used all of the previous cameras with AI lenses. Newer bodies such as the N80 do not have an aperture coupling mechanism, AI lenses will mount, but will not work adequately on these bodies. You can get great pics of children with this equipment, as an example I am posting a photo of my niece and her mother taken with a 4 x 5 Toyo view camera, this is the type of camera where you crawl under a black cloth to focus the camera and is a type used since the civil war. Shun, do you work for Nikon or are you just a shill for them? I have a latest model 105mm f2.8 AF-D micro Nikkor mounted on my Nikon Ftn and it works and meters perfectly. It only cost me 30.00 US to have the rabbit ear mounted. I can also mount my AI 45mm f2.8 GN Nikkor on my F5 and that also works perfectly, granted, I can't use program mode and I do have to focus it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_warn Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Trying again with the pic. <center> <img src=" http://www.photo.net/photo/1358325&size=lg"> </center> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_warn Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 <center> <img src="http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=1358325&size=lg"> </center> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 My chrome Nikkormat Ftn is 30 years old; and has never required a CLA; and was bought new. I bought a new black Nikkormat Ftn-k in the mid/late 1970s's as a backup body while shooting sports. It died twice; and spent most of its time in Nikon repair; before being stolen. It had a MTBF of about 2 to 5 rolls. It was the worst camera body I have ever owned; it failed as a backup twice. <BR><BR>I find the comments about needing to use AF focusing fascinating. My old Nikon F and F2 are better for sports focusing; because I have specialized screens for them. <BR><BR>If the camera works ok; avoid a CLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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