carl_madson Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I was curious to see what others thought of the reply I got back from Nikon when I expressed my frustration over their new 'G' type lenses. This is the reply I got back from Nikon. "Dear Carl Madson: Nikon is manufacturing both D-type and G-type lenses to accommodate different types of photographers. We have to try and please all types of photographers with different body styles: new or old. The D- type lenses that Nikon continues to manufacturer are intended for photographers that have either older manual focus bodies or older AF bodies. The 7 G-type lenses out of the 54 current AF lenses that we have are intended for the NEWER AF camera bodies. They are partially compatible with older AF camera bodies. They were not intended to be used with manual focus bodies at all. At at least you understand that not all features of our lenses may be used with every camera we have had; just as you mentioned SWM, VR etc."... Here is what struck me the most. I didn't realize that when I used my N80 until the batteries died then switched to my FM2 that I suddenly became a different type of photographer. You learn something new everyday! Thanks, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_frank Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 While I dislike loss of aperture control on the lens, here are a couple thoughts. -don't forget to bring extra batteries for your n80. duh! -your fm2 can't use any of the features found only in these g lenses - like AFS, aperture control via body, vr, etc. so just get an older version of the lens that you can use on both bodies. -you just simply have to deal with change. at least nikon hasnt changed it's lens mount like canon. these nikon frustrations can't compare to what it must have been like for a dedicated canon shoot when they switched mounts. I could be mistaken, I don't know the whole lineup of g lenses but are there any g lenses that don't have an older af or ais counterpart, more or less? I was under the impression there weren't, except maybe that 12-24 zoom, but that's not for your n80 or fm2 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry n. Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 "The 7 G-type lenses out of the 54 current AF lenses that we have are intended for the NEWER AF camera bodies." --------------------------------------------------------- This is total BS. I can't believe a Nikon rep would say this. Of the G lenses that are currently available, only one, the 24-85 AF-S, is intended to be an alternative to a D lens. The other currently available G lenses are intended to be as cheap as possible. I can't imagine one of them on a F5, F100 or D1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel_o. Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 The G's strike back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_becker1 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Paul, There's no reason I can't reasonably expect to get AF-S on an N80 and still be able to fall back to an FM2. Until the 'G' lenses, the beauty of the Nikon system was that any lens, when plugged into an older body, behaves exactly like a lens of the same period of the body. An AF-S lens, plugged into a body that expects AIs, behaves exactly like an AIs lens. But when it is plugged into a new body, it gives the user the advantages of the new features. (Yes, I know that AF-S doesn't work as AF on older AF bodies, but lack of autofocus is significanly less important than lack of aperture control.) If I want VR on my new body, I have to buy a VR lens. I shouldn't have to own both 24-120 lenses just so I can have a 24-120 on an FM2 and a 24-120 with VR on an N80. Before 'G', that same 24-120 would work on both. This merely looks like another data point in Nikon's abandonment of compatibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leif_goodwin8 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 <P> This was also discussed in a recent earlier thread: </P> <P> <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=004b0v">Click here.</A> </P> <P> It got quite animated. I won't rehash my own arguments except to say that I have the feeling of being ripped off by Nikon. </P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_lofquist Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I wonder if the "G" lens has better weatherproofing by eliminating the Aperture Ring? Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I think the situation is not so bad after all. At least they realize that some people do still use manual bodies! That's good. It would be nice though if they didn't couple VR and G. There is bound to be users who have both the need for VR and an older back-up camera, and who still want a lens with a decent tripod mount. Oh well, I'm going to invest in a better tripod now that I've been excluded from the VR class. A G1348 perhaps, with a nice ballhead. That should keep the vibrations in control. And it's cheaper, too. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Weatherproofing? In a G lens? You're joking! A G lens is likely to fall apart at the first sight of a raindrop. ;-) Seriously though, I love to photograph in the rain. Never had a malfunction. A few rusted screws though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leif_goodwin8 Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Rain wiped out my F601m. (While kept in a worse than useless CCS backpack.) And water destroyed my F90x. Wonder if Canon kit is water resistant? Most Nikon isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl_madson Posted February 28, 2003 Author Share Posted February 28, 2003 Here is an excerpt from the <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/news/pma2003/nikonpma2003.htm#28-300">PMA2003 press release:</A><P> "The AF Zoom Nikkor 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED lens features Nikon's <B>innovative</B> G-type design, enabling lens apertures to be selected directly from Nikon SLR camera bodies that include a command dial for aperture selection. This design facilitates better lens handling and helps photographers keep a more positive grip on the camera. This firmer grip and balance helps photographers get sharper images, even as they adjust exposure and quickly shoot their pictures." <P> I bolded innovative myself since I believe we have all been able to select the aperture of the lens via a command dial since the N8008 (in the P* modes anyway). <P> Anyway what I was trying to get across originally Joel nailed exactly. I want to be able to purchase a new Nikon lens with all the bells and whistles, use it on my new Nikon bodies (w/bells and whistles) and then when the need arises also be able to use it on my older MF (w/o bells and whistles) bodies. <P> -Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 Leif, no camera will endure soaking in water without some kind of external protection, except for the Nikonos. ;-) I believe some Canon lenses have nice weather protection seals, but certainly not all. I do put plastic bags on my camera when I use them in the rain for longer than a moment. I really like your fungi pictures though, and I guess taking them took their toll in terms of damaged cameras, too. Nice work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 In a sense, the F80/N80 with a G lens is essentially replicating the Olympus iS-series ZLRs. Handy for high-level P&S photography, sure. Innovative? Nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klix Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 I found good use for the 24-85mm G with my F5; I found better use for the 70-300mm with my Sig Sauer 9mm -- 'nuff said :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_frank Posted February 28, 2003 Share Posted February 28, 2003 That's fine Carl, I'd like that too, but I think what alot of us are trying to say is that you're just going to have to deal with that not being a reality. No amount of whining on Photo.net is going to convince Nikon to change their development strategy. So this is all an excercise in futility. Start a petition and get as many Nikon user's signatures as possible and send that to Nikon. That probably will have no effect but it will have more of an effect that this thread. I'll even be the first to sign it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrislong Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 I get the point of the G lenses for the cheaper stuff, but G pro glass is just wrong. Why? At the price of pro glass it can't cost significantly more to make a lens with an aperture ring so what advantage do they really get by leaving it off other then forcing photographers to buy their newer bodies? It sort of defeats one of the best things Nikon has going for it which is the backwards compatability. I like Nikon cameras and lenses but this just rubs me the wrong way. One reason I started with Nikon was I liked the option of a fully manual backup camera that can take all the same lenses as my main camera. With this new trend, that will no longer be true. If that wasn't a factor when I got into the Nikon system, I very well may have gone Canon since they have USM and MLU in most everything these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 Just got the pro G 70-200 VR lens. The G mount does seem to offer one benefit that is difficult to obtain with conventional F mount: Its rigid back end allowed Nikon to install a rubber gasket to seals the seam in the mount when the lens is mounted on the camera. Just how much practical effect this might have on the actual water resistance of the body is another question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leif_goodwin8 Posted March 1, 2003 Share Posted March 1, 2003 <P>Ilkka: Thanks for the kind words about my piccies. I will get round to adding pictures from the last few years when I find time. I expect Finland is good for Fungi including Boletus edulis aka Cèpe, aka Porcino, aka Steinpilz (wonder what that is in Finnish, assuming you speak Finnish and not Swedish). </P><P>Yes my cameras died due to my abusing them (in one case due to a badly designed back pack that funnelled rain into the internal compartments) and I certainly don't criticise Nikon for that. In my experience Nikon cameras are <B>very</B> reliable and <B>very</B> well made. </P><P>Regarding the aperture ring and sealing, I am sure that Nikon could design a sealed aperture ring that did not contact the body. After all they do it with the zoom and focus rings don't they?</P><P><A HREF="http://mysite.freeserve.com/ukfungi/mainpage.html">Leif<A></P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr5 examples Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I don't shoot Nikon, but I'll say this.. If the G lenses keep selling the way they have, then Nikon has made the best decision it has ever made. Where I work, the 24-85 sells very well and we have quite a few preorders for the 70-200. It seems clear to me that the vast majority of people buying new lenses have fairly new cameras as well. This is the market that Nikon is pursuing. I have to side with Nikon in that shooting with a FM3A is quite different than shooting with the f100. The 28-70 f2.8 would never be considered a natural match for the FM series, the lens weighs more than than the camera! Talk about awkward handling! Plus, the smaller zooms have variable apertures, once again, not real convenient for shooting with a manual camera. I really think that Nikon views all of their nonzoom lenses as much more likely candidates for legacy users. " But they still make the FM3A" I can hear you moan... True, but if you look at their numbers, they probably sell 30 or 40 N65, N80, F100, or any of the digital SLRs for each FM series camera. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if sales of the N80 eclipse the total sales of the FM, FM2, and FM3A. If Nikon can find ANY advantage to the G mount for the people buying the vast majority of their cameras (be it profit or anything else), they will pursue it. Consumers are voting with their wallets, and they either consider the G mount a better option or else they don't care. You can yell as loudly as you want, but if it is profitable, you can bet your last dollar that Nikon will continue to do this. Isaac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry n. Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Isaac, I'm glad you started by saying that you don't shoot Nikon. Why should we listen to you -:) I'm getting so pissed at G lenses and Nikon's lack of an affordable digital SLR that can use AIS lenses. Bah humbug to Nikon lens compatability. Shame on them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr5 examples Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 How long ago did they come up with AIS lenses? 1981? 83? The only 35mm manufacturers that have maintained full compatability with lenses that old are Pentax and Leica (at least for their M series). Looks like Nikon is becoming more and more typical as time goes on... I guess I'd say just be thankful for the long ride... If you must have a backup body, buy another camera that can use the G series, there's plenty of them less expensive than the FM3A... Isaac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
over exposure Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Just the tought that Nikon Italy said to me is a question of precision in the aperture selection (1\3 value) and a question of weight reduction make me laugh histerically.....weight? on a ultra-heavy zoom lenses how many grams you can improve in weight loss? and about precision, if you wanted to use that camera body ring, you simply locked the aperture ring..... They are eating themselves cause at the next lens issue we'll see just more and more G....next to maybe some AI and AFD in jewels cases, for nostalgic F\FE\FM users..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 As far as I know, the aperture ring is the more precise way of setting the aperture. It's repeatable, and it's analog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 "As far as I know, the aperture ring is the more precise way of setting the aperture. It's repeatable, and it's analog"<p> I strongly doubt it. Mechanical aperture ring introduces an extra analogue to digital conversion in the data flow between aperture setting and actual exposure control. As a result, mechnaically setting the aperture ring in an auto-exposure camera is likely to reduce, not increase, exposure accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry n. Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Does anyone know for certain which is more accurate or are we all just postulating? More importantly, has anyone ever noticed a difference in their pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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