So I bought a Bronica S2...

[10987435]

And now I'm wondering what I've gotten myself into.

 

This is my first film camera. I've watched lots of videos and read several articles/forums, but I seem to be having difficulties. I bought it off eBay and supposedly it was tested for timing issues (including bulb mode) and the foam for the focusing screen was replaced. However...I can't seem to get the bulb mode to work and there seem to be issues with focusing. I spent a significant amount of time trying to make sure one of my photos was in focus with a relatively close (non-moving) subject at f/2.8, but the focus point seems to have actually been behind my subject by a decent amount.

 

I read somewhere about replacing the foam for the mirror, as well, but cannot seem to find the instructions anymore. I'm not sure I'm comfortable doing the repair myself (or if it's even the issue). Does anyone have suggestions of where I could get it repaired? Where I could find instructions for fixing the mirror myself if I decide to try? Anyone had issues with bulb mode on an S2? Words of encouragement?

 

Beyond that, I developed my first roll myself and scanned some of the pictures in with my DSLR. Maybe I'm jumping in too deep too fast, but I was not too pleased with my results. I'm hoping to get the camera issues sorted out, try another roll and get it professionally developed/scanned, and fall in love with the camera, but right now it seems like a really long road ahead of me.

 

I would upload one of the images, but maybe I'm too new to the forum for it to let me...

[andyfalsetta]

First place to look for your focus error solution is at the viewfinder screen. Nothing should be loose and the glass should be properly placed. Don't get discouraged by your first experience - its medium format; get used to it. ;) Seriosuly, few people get great results right out of the gate. Once things get sorted out, you'll appreciate your gear and medium format that much more.

 

When you say "bulb mode" isn't working, what is the symptom?

[10987435]

Andyfalsetta, thanks for your reply.

 

The seller's add says the foam under the viewfinder was replaced, so I've been going off that assumption, but I suppose it should be easy enough to double check. Any idea what size the screws are? I read somewhere they are soft and easily stripped. I don't think I have a small enough screwdriver even in my precision screwdriver kit.

 

When I put the camera in bulb mode, if I use a camera release cable or press and hold the shutter, the curtain stays open for about a 1/4 (guessing) second, I can hear the timing mechanism, and then it closes regardless of whether I am still holding the shutter button/cable button down.

[orsetto]

If you are still within a reasonable window of time for an eBay return, ask the seller to take it back (if they refuse, file a polite "not as described complaint" ASAP re the focus and Bulb issues with eBay Console). This camera shows all the red flags of a typical Bronica S2 disaster purchase.

 

At this late date, all the various Bronica systems get lumped together under the broad reputation of "good" that was earned by the modern ETR and SQ, with many sellers and buyers being only dimly aware of the trainwreck reputation of the early focal plane systems. Don't get me wrong: I enjoyed my own S2A system while I had it, and it remains a beloved classic for its tank construction, lens versatility, and clever design touches. BUT: focal plane shutter Bronica hasn't been a realistic choice as a "user" system for many years, primarily because the last repair tech in USA with factory training and parts finally retired (and even he got so sick of working on them he dialed his business back years before that). These cameras are persona non grata to most repair shops: nobody will touch them and spare parts are long gone.

 

In theory, one can self repair the focus problems caused by deteriorated screen and mirror foams. In practice, it often isn't as easy as some proponents suggest. Bronica engineered these foam implementations as stupidly and inconsistently as they possibly could, flying in the face of what was otherwise quite a tour de force of camera workmanship. The screen frame and foams in particular are a PITA to get precisely calibrated, and if your mirror is also off the task is compounded immensely. Making things worse, you have the earlier S2 instead of the improved S2A. The S2 has some fragile wind and shutter cock gearing plus other mechanical faults that are a repairman's nightmare. So even if you manage to sort out the focus errors, chances are very good the shutter can't be fixed and/or the film advance will give out shortly after. Long story short, the focal plane Bronica is probably the worst possible entry-level camera for a medium format beginner in todays market: they're strictly for collectors or those already extremely familiar with their difficult upkeep.

 

If you want a 6x6 square format SLR, the Bronica SQ series is far more reliable and usable, with better and easier to find lenses. The ETR is 6x4.5 rectangular format, a hugely popular system in its day, very affordable now and as good as the SQ. Both systems use leaf shutter lenses, which offer great versatility with flash (one of the big draws for medium format pros back in the film era). If you're willing to work with 645 instead of 6x6 square, the older Mamiya M645, M645J and M645 1000S are excellent choices with focal plane electronic shutter and plentiful lenses (including a nice fast 80mm f/1.9 standard lens). Another good choice is Pentax 645, with built-in prism finder, grip, and AE metering.

 

The ultimate in versatility would be the Mamiya RB67 or RZ67 with their rotating backs, but these are half again larger and heavier than the Bronica S2 so not everyone finds them appealing for handheld use (despite their excellent damping making handheld at 1/30th sec possible). And of course Hasselblad, perhaps the best-known medium format camera. I would not recommend Hassy for MF newbies, however: in their own way, they are as repair-needy as the Bronica S2 and can kill you with unexpected service costs if you aren't prepared. But unlike the Bronica S2, 'blad was immensely popular for decades, so many repair techs are still around with knowledge of routine maintenance. That maintenance is very very expensive, however: about the same as for Rolleiflex TLRs. If budget is an important factor, look at Bronica SQ /ETR or one of the Mamiya systems (these are far less likely to require expensive servicing).

Edited January 13, 2020 by orsetto

[orsetto]

If you decide to keep this funky S2 as a pet project and perpetual work-in-progress, here are some links I found helpful when I owned my S2A and C bodies (S2A is same as S2 but has better gearing mechanics, the C is an S2 without removable film back):

 

Mechanical Issues:

 

Bronica Z, D. S, C, S2, S2A, EC, EC-TL, and EC-TLll

 

Mirror Issues:

 

Bronica Z, D. S, C, S2, S2A, EC, EC-TL, and EC-TLll

 

Assorted Servicing / Usage Tips Including photo-illustrated screen replacement tutorial:

 

Review - My First SLR - Zenza Bronica S2A.

 

Schematic Of Screen Assembly:

 

Dépoli Bronica S2

[peter_fowler]

^ Great links

It's kinda ironic that some of my favorite pictures were taken with an S2 . Felt good in the hand (I've larger mechanics hands) , but

don't think you'll get any sneaky pictures in churches :) . Have become almost adept a repairing Kowas and Pentacon Sixes , the

Bronica S2 however , the mechanics in those are daunting :( . Peter

[tom_chow]

The focus issue is an easy fix, very likely the foam under the mirror (which pushes it up against the frame) is 60 years gone. The foam was meant to be replaced once in a while, and back focusing is that classic symptom.

 

The shutter timing issues is different, that may be a lot more difficult and expensive....

[allancobb]

Does anyone have suggestions of where I could get it repaired?

 

You can try to reach out to Frank Marshman at camerawiz@msn.com. About a year ago I thought he had retired but his website was still active (https://www.manta.com/d/mm0yggb/camera-wiz-camera-repair) and he responded to my email; I sent him my totally broken Bronica S body and he repaired it good as new.

[orsetto]

Good to know about Frank Marshman, had no idea he accepted S2 repairs: I thought once Jimmy Koh hung up his toolbelt that was the end.

 

For a newbie just starting out with MF film, I'm still leery of recommending they keep a bad S2 and pay for repair vs returning it and starting all over with something more practical while one still has the option to "dodge the bullet". The FP split-mirror Bronnies are a lot of fun (when they work), but there are a lot of things that fail on them. Its one thing to find one or two techs left who can repair them, and another to wait weeks or months for the repaired camera to be returned at not-minor expense. Plus you still have their pending retirement hanging over you.

 

If a newer Bronica SQ or ETR body fails, you throw it away and buy another functioning body for less than anyone would charge for repair (and they don't break that often to begin with). Ditto a first-gen Mamiya M645, or even RB/RZ67. The Bronica S2, EC and EC/TL can make great second-string systems for adventurous camera bugs with patience (and a repair slush fund), but they probably aren't the best first-line choice in 2020.

 

My personal experience getting the focus fixed on two of them was a total buzzkill: by the time I nailed it, I'd lost interest in shooting them. Others have had the same disillusionment after awhile: too heavy, too loud, and unless you can find the rarer upgraded faster multicoated Nikkors or Zenzanons the lenses don't merit the aggravation. The four most common are just OK: 75mm is good, the 50mm f/3.5 looks great on the camera but flares like a solar wind, the 135mm is mediocre, the 200mm is dull. Many other options exist, but they're either scarce or require some hack work. Something like the Nikkor 50mm f/2.8 is very nice, but for what it costs you can buy two 50mm PS lenses for the SQ that are optically better. The Nikkor 40mm is scarce and expensive, the SQ 40mm available and reasonable. Plus you get the accurate reliable electronic leaf shutter in each lens.

Edited January 14, 2020 by orsetto

[10987435]

Thanks for all the replies. I took the advice and initiated a return with eBay. I feel a little bit guilty since I don't think the guy was intentionally deceptive, but eBay does seem to want to make you feel comfortable buying used items by offering a money-back guarantee. So, I guess we will see what happens. If it doesn't work out, at least I have a lot of good websites for research now, and potentially someone for repairs!

 

What do you all think about the Pentacon Six, or the Kiev 60 TTL cameras? Any advice on buying on eBay?

[orsetto]

What do you all think about the Pentacon Six, or the Kiev 60 TTL cameras? Any advice on buying on eBay?

 

The same boat as the Bronica S2. The bodies are basically crap, people buy them only because they're the cheapest pathway to some legendary Zeiss lenses (and there are scads of other lenses available at reasonable cost, including some nice Russian glass but also a lot of junk). The bodies can be challenging, to say the least: properly overhauled by a specialist, maybe, but then your costs go up and you still have a not-sterling body to contend with that may need another overhaul in a couple years. Some people are very lucky with these cameras, just as some have been very lucky with their S2. But as a medium format newbie, again you're playing with fire. Do you really want to risk frame overlaps, shutter issues and film advance problems while learning to shoot medium format?

 

Once upon a time (pre-digital), the Pentacon and Kiev were the only affordable SLR alternatives to the Mamiya TLR as entry-level interchangeable lens systems, so people on a budget tolerated the issues. Today, all the better-made SLRs (and their lenses) have tanked in price: at best you save maybe $100 gambling on the Pentacon/Kiev. Hasselblad is still pricey, but everything else is low-hanging fruit. While its nice that you can use a Zeiss Olympia Sonnar 180mm f/2.8 on a Pentacon/Kiev for sparrow feed money, unless thats your favorite focal length the foibles of the system can get real old real fast.

 

Like Bronica S2, the Pentacon/Kiev works a lot better as a secondary "fun" backup to another boring but more reliable system. I'm not saying there aren't thousands of photographers who got into medium format thru these cameras and happily stayed there, but for most just getting their feet wet with medium format today ? It might be more fun short-term if you don't have to carry a lucky rabbits foot, cross your fingers and pray every time you walk out the door with your camera.

 

As you consider medium format options, keep one thing uppermost in mind: 35mm SLRs were made in the millions and quickly perfected to the point most 40 year old Nikons and Canons are still mechanically sound and perfectly usable as-is bought from eBay. Medium format, not so much: these were usually low-volume products bought mostly by professionals who beat them into the ground as working tools. It was expected you would have them serviced regularly. Forty or fifty years later, most of them are a pain, including the legendary Hasselblad which can sink you with a $600 repair bill as soon as you open the eBay package. If you don't want that headache, start with a system known for reliability after sitting unused for years, less frequent repairs, and/or cheap repairs/replacements: Mamiya TLR, Mamiya M645 (fixed back only), Mamiya RB or RZ 67, Bronica SQ, or Bronica ETR. Anything else entails greater risk of more immediate, frequent, expensive or hard-to-source repairs.

 

Those caveats out of the way, the Zeiss and Mir lenses for the Pentacon/Kiev are worth the troublesome bodies if you can live with the uncertainty of whether your expensive 120 film was exposed properly.

Edited January 14, 2020 by orsetto

[10987435]

Hm...I'm beginning to regret my jump to medium format film. Maybe I should stick with what I know. So far, if I get a refund for the S2, I guess I'll only be out the cost of the film and the developing equipment (about $120).

 

My reasons for getting into medium format were:

1. The amount of detail I thought was possible.

2. The challenge of learning something new.

3. I thought the increased thought that would have to go into one photo would help my usual DSLR photography.

 

However, I may have jumped in too quickly. I need to look at more examples of photos taken with medium format cameras. Frankly, I'm not impressed with the colors I'm beginning to think are typical. The detail is there, but only if you are really good at scanning in the negatives, it seems. Maybe my search for a challenge would be better spent on some aspect of improving my DSLR photography. I can still treat my digital photography with the same mindset I WOULD have used to take a medium format shot. I just won't be FORCED to.

[kmac]

Good move returning the camera. Only the item description has relevance, both text and photos. Deception is not an issue, that's only for buyers who think too much. If the item doesn't match the seller's representation of it, then of course quickly return it if your heart isn't set on keeping the item and repairing it. FYI many Japanese sellers appear to be middle men, using a standard description form they fill out and sometimes remnants of past descriptions are not deleted, and therefore the description half describes the listed camera, and half describes an older listing. Not saying you bought the camera from a Japanese seller but I've had lots of disappointments necessitating returns or negotiating partial refunds

 

I don't own a Pentagon but I have two Kiev 60 bodies and so far so good but I keep my fingers crossed as Orsetto advised.

 

However, I may have jumped in too quickly.

 

Yes film is the old way, digital is the new way. Film can be a hassle these days, and sometimes quite expensive. Beginners into film photography I suppose, need a profound interest in it to meet the challenges and make it work for them. I reckon there are those who either love it or hate it, but it's a hobby many still love

[JDMvW]

Have fun and good luck. I still want one of the Hasselblad-like 6cm cameras, but maybe my TLRs and my Pentacon 6TL are enough? :confused:

[orsetto]

Hm...I'm beginning to regret my jump to medium format film.

 

You just had the very common rookie stumble of not coming across enough background info and context of the various camera systems before jumping in. I'm truly sorry for harshing your vibe and throwing a damper on your initial camera choices, my intent wasn't to dissuade you from medium format altogether but to push you in a direction with the least chance of distracting camera issues upfront. Working with film, esp larger film, for the first time can be challenging enough: the last thing you want is mechanical problems and time-wasting repairs making it more complicated.

 

A well-functioning medium format film camera can be very inspiring to use: they're different from other cameras in handling, size, pace of operation, lens qualities, build, quirks. After a dozen or so rolls, you'll get a feel for whether it makes your spine tingle or not, regardless of how close those first rolls come to what you desired/expected. If it turns your crank, you'll put a little more time into perfecting your film shooting skills and scanning / analog printing options. If it leaves you feeling indifferent, then perhaps MF film isn't something you'll enjoy enough to sink further time/money in. At that point, you can sell off the gear, and apply whatever new nuggets of info you gleaned to your digital photography. Either way, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you scratched the film itch first-hand.

 

My reasons for getting into medium format were:

1. The amount of detail I thought was possible.

2. The challenge of learning something new.

3. I thought the increased thought that would have to go into one photo would help my usual DSLR photography.

 

These are sensible and common elements that draw people to vintage medium format cameras and film. The first one, however, can be tricky. Details in film do not render the same as details on digital: the analog "pixels" are altogether different in presentation. 120 film can hold lots of acuity and detail, about as much as a 16MP DSLR, but it doesn't always have that in-your-face resolution that screams "LOOK HOW SHARP I AM" the way digital does. It takes a little time for your eyes to develop an appreciation for film detail vs digital details, and the "advantages" some people appreciate in 120 film can be too subtle for others to see or enjoy to the same degree: this is totally subjective.

 

Much of what makes medium format film imagery compelling is the different way it handles tonality, colors, and focus falloff in front of and behind the subject. This is more difficult to appreciate with color negative film than transparency film or black and white: a well-shot Velvia frame can knock you on your ass, Tri-X 120 and analog printing still renders BW in a stunning way digital has an extremely hard time matching. Color negative, OTOH, can seem blah at first when compared to digital. It isn't the most intuitive thing to scan well, and analog color prints are not as easy to get as they once were. Colors can seem a bit pastel and muted until you really get the hang of shooting and scanning color negative films.

 

Apart from the results (which for some people are almost irrelevant) there is the sheer pleasure of using these excellent cameras: even if you never bother to delve deeply and get really really good at shooting film, just using the cameras for snapshots can be a welcome break from the sameness and routine of digital- perhaps enough to recharge your creative batteries when you need a jolt.

 

But you need a first camera thats likely to be decently operational in as-found eBay condition, and such cameras are not named Bronica S2-EC, Hasselblad, Rolleiflex, Kowa, Pentax 67 or Pentacon/Kiev. You either want a mechanical beast built like a Mack truck that all repairmen can service locally, affordably and quickly (Mamiya TLR, Mamiya RB67) or something with an electronic shutter that has a fairly solid reputation for not punking out (first generation Mamiya M645, Bronica SQ, Bronica ETR).

 

The Mamiya TLRs have the simplest mechanicals: the only thing that ever goes wrong is an occasional film advance glitch or a leaf shutter needing to be cleaned, either of which any repair shop can do in their sleep because the mechanisms are easily accessed. Most of the lens pairs sell for $100 or less, so it can be even faster and cheaper just to sell the lens that fails and buy another. Built in bellows allows near-macro shooting with all lenses, the non-moving mirror helps with handheld available light using slower shutter speeds. You do need to pay attention to occasional parallax issues due to the TLR viewing vs a typical SLR (mostly when doing head shot portraits or extreme closeups). C220 series is smaller/lighter/less complex than C330, older C3 and C33 are HUGE and heavy. My favorite is the scarce final C220F, but they sell for as much as a good Bronica SQ SLR.

 

Mamiya RB67 is more complex but still amazingly rugged and durable. Lenses of all ages and prices can be found, the best being the final K/L series. RZ67 has electronic lens shutters instead of mechanical: slightly more accurate and dependable, but the body can sometimes eat batteries (I prefer the RB). Both offer a huge 6x7 negative, huge immersive "IMAX" focus screen, rotating back to make waist-level portraits a snap, and built-in bellows for closeup shots with all lenses. Drawback is they're big, somewhat clumsy and heavy (but so worth it).

 

Mamiya M645 is basically a smaller lighter modernized variation of the Bronica S2 concept, but with much simpler reliable electronic focal plane shutter, rugged winding, TTL meter prism options, and 645 format instead of 6x6. Like the Mamiya and Rolleiflex TLRs, the M645 does not have interchangeable backs so you cannot change film types mid-roll. OTOH, this means a simplified mechanism and reduced chance of light leak issues (plus hardly anyone does mid-roll changes from color to BW film anymore).

 

Bronica SQ is essentially a clone of the 6x6 Hasselblad, but electronic, much less expensive and with much more reliable lens shutters. Integrated grips with fast thumb winding and AE prisms are available, something unmatched by Hasselblad unless you spend $3000. Newer PS lenses are excellent. Most common issue is light leaks in the film backs: this is easy for repair shops to fix by replacing several foam seals, tho not as easy to DIY as Hasselblad backs with their single foam seal.

 

Bronica ETR is slightly smaller version of SQ with 645 format instead of 6x6. Same advantages and accessories, same caveat about the back seals. Another way to look at ETR is its like the Mamiya M645 but with leaf shutter lenses (instead of focal plane shutter) plus interchangeable back. Leaf shutters are a big advantage with flash outdoors, if that isn't your thing then either shutter type will do equally well.

Edited January 14, 2020 by orsetto

[rodeo_joe1]

Unless you're willing to lug a hefty tripod around with you, the S2 would almost certainly have ruined many shots with its shutter/mirror vibration - fully working or not. IMO, you're well out of it by sending it back.

 

Kiev60s are complete crap. Don't touch.

 

The Pentacon 6 and its Zeiss Jena lenses are capable of excellent results, but the camera body is a delicate beast and the age of P6s goes against them. Not recommended unless fully CLAed and restored.

 

Kowa 6es - same as above, with extra unreliability due to the leaf-shutter lenses.

 

Old metal Mamiya 645s are a good bet - definitely not any of the plastic-bodied Supers, Super TLs or E versions.

 

Minolta or Yashica TLRs are affordable and generally reliable. Personally I don't like TLR ergonomics, but if you can live with them, great!

[JDMvW]

The Pentacon 6 and its Zeiss Jena lenses are capable of excellent results, but the camera body is a delicate beast and the age of P6s goes against them. Not recommended unless fully CLAed and restored.

 

I'm sorry to say that this is largely true. The Pentacon 6 models are better than the Praktiflex ancestors, but ....

this label can be applied to lots of 6x6 SLRs, except the "fumes" part applies more to the ex-Soviet models.

[tomspielman]

I agree with Joe. A good place to start with medium format is a TLR. The mechanisms are relatively simple. Like Joe, I'm not a fan of the ergonomics and eventually sold my Yashica. But as an entry into the world of medium format, it did the job well enough to get me hooked.

[eb_kidd]

I agree with Joe. A good place to start with medium format is a TLR.

 

Agreed, the initial price of investment is quite small and you can walk away from them without losing a bundle.

[10987435]

I've had a great experience with the seller of the camera, luckily. It gives me confidence to possibly dive in and try another eBay purchase. I would like to get a Mamiya RB67, but I can't see my wife letting me spend that much (at least, not without consequences). Based on the advice here, I think I will start perusing ads for TLRs. Ergonomics don't seem to bother me, so it sounds like that would be a good place to start and within my budget. I've already spent the money on the developing gear assuming I would be developing lots of rolls of film. I might as well stick with it!

[joe_hodge]

I jumped in with a Bronica SQ, and have been having a blast. It wasn't trouble free, and I'd recommend buying from KEH rather than Ebay to get started. At least with KEH, you have a reputable company standing behind what you bought.

[10987435]

I've looked at KEH. Their prices don't seem unreasonable, but their selection is somewhat limited. I assume they make sure everything is in working order before selling their used gear? Is there any kind of guarantee?

[orsetto]

The big draw with KEH is their ironclad money-back guarantee, so unexpected defects are never a contentious issue. Their selection isn't what it used to be, and clunkers slip past their inspection process more often than they once did, but if the price/condition is right they're still probably the best commercial used camera dealer left in the business.

 

The RB67 is usually not unduly expensive, but it has gone up from the peanut shells it was selling for three years ago (patience stalking eBay can still net you a nice one with lens for about $350). Bronica SQ has suffered the same uptick in price: barely a year ago it was easy to find one for under $300, today they're hard to snag under $450. Assuming you have about $250 to play with, give or take, since you were shopping Bronica S2 and Pentacon 6? This may be somewhat constraining, as prices for all medium format cameras (good-bad-mediocre) have become significantly inflated recently. Just as surging demand for Hasselblad has pushed up RB67 and Bronica SQ, where one was able to find a really nice second-string TLR like Ricoh Diacord G or Yashica D in great condition for $150 not long ago, today people are asking $250 for as-is junkers with problems.

 

We're in a period where great medium format starter cameras that typically sold for $100 over the past ten years now have "cults" behind them, spillovers from the larger cults behind the famous names. The stupid-high pricing for Rolleiflexes (even examples that were run over by a panel truck) begat inflated demand for Yashica and Minolta TLRs which begat truly bizarro-world asking prices on Ricoh and all the other previously-budget models. A Diacord for $150 in guaranteed good working condition from a reputable seller is about as cheap as one will find today, if you can find it (many on offer are "as-is, who knows if it works). This is mind-blowing to us geezers, who remember when mfrs couldn't give away TLRs in 1975: Rollei had become irrelevant, Yashica just had one model left, and Mamiya was in a different niche with its changeable lenses- all others TLRs were nothing but a distant memory).

 

If you're willing to carry a larger TLR that weighs about as much as the Bronica S2, consider a Mamiya. While prices have climbed up from the rock bottom of five years ago, the most common models still remain good deals because they're the Rodney Dangerfield of TLRs. Hipsters sneer at them because their utilitarian appearance is about as far from the coveted "Rolleiflex Street Jewelry" trend as you can get, while serious photographers sneer at them because "I can't fit it in my Carhart jacket pocket to pretend I'm clandestine Vivian Maier like I can with the svelte Rolleiflex or its clones, waaah". The key point they overlook is the interchangeable lenses and bellows focus feature, which are similar to RB67. The removable lens makes repairs and maintenance a breeze compared to any other TLR (or SLR).

 

So prices on all but the final rare-ish Mamiyas (C220-F and C330-S) remain fairly reasonable: patient shopping can snare a nice C220 with lens for $200 or so, a C330 or C330f for about $250, and if you don't mind a camera that can take down a mugger with one swipe the older C33 can be had for under $200. The C220 is slightly smaller and lighter, with the simplest mechanism of any MF camera (cock shutter with knob on lens, wind film with crank, parallax guide is engraved lines in viewfinder). C330 is a bit larger/heavier but has automatic shutter cock when you advance the film and a moving bar in viewfinder for more precise closeup parallax indication. C33 is similar to C330 but older, larger, heavier. Black barrel lenses are usually a safer bet than silver-face lenses, but it really isn't a big deal to have either cleaned and lubed if necessary. 80mm f/2.8 was standard lens, you can sometimes save money if you find one with 65mm f/3.5 or 105mm f/3.5 instead (65mm is mild wide angle, 105mm long-normal, both very nice). Avoid the oddball 80mm f/3.7 Japanese sellers slap on many of their Mamiyas.

Edited January 15, 2020 by orsetto

[andyfalsetta]

A Mamiya 3 series (C3 C33 or C330) is a nice way to get into TLR and have the ability to change lenses. They are around for under $350 with a couple of lenses.

 

I agree with all the sentiments on a Pentacon 6. Unless they have had a full refurb to rid them of the old lubricants, they are money pits. Mine took mucho hours to get right but once it was, the price of a complete system was cheap compared to other medium format offerings and the Zeiss lenses were sharp as a tack.

 

A TLR is a great start as others have said, but honestly, if you are looking to have a couple of lenses, and don't want a Mamiya C series, a great alternative is an SQa or better yet, an SQAi Bronica with PS lenses. They too have very affordable lenses despite each one having its own leaf shutter. Its not unreasonable to expect to find three lenses for a Bronica SQAi all for under $500 and the shutters would be bang on. You can find a nice SQAi with a metered finder for under $400 all day. If it were a Hasselblad, one lens would set you back a minimum of $300 and would still need a $300 CLA to get it right. The Seiko electronic shutter controls in the SQ series lenses are just about the most reliable out there and in my opinion, above reproach for the cost.

 

Pat yourself on the back for returning the S2. While the problems may not have been intentional, someone elses problems shouldn't be yours. .

Edited January 15, 2020 by andyfalsetta

[allancobb]

Your reasons for trying medium format are sound. All is not gloom and doom and frankly, I find myself shooting much more medium format now than 35mm and about the same as digital. I think Orsetto’s comments regarding sharpness generally ring true, but depending on the lens(es) used, MF can easily give digital a run for its money. But, as always, I shoot film for its “look” vs. technical characteristics. For me, the real magic of MF is in the smooth tonal transitions vs. smaller formats.

 

I second the Bronica leaf shutter cameras (ETR, SQ) as they are cheaper to get into, are quite reliable, are true system cameras, and provide excellent results. I have an ETR (from eBay years ago) and an ETRS (KEH) and both perform brilliantly. Although becoming more expensive these days with higher demand, the P6x7 still has repair options available.

 

Whatever you decide, good luck in your search, have fun, and enjoy the journey, you’ll love it.