Ricochetrider Posted August 24, 2019 Posted August 24, 2019 Hello everyone. I may have an opportunity to sell some images to a museum for them to resell in their gift shop. The lady (who was very nice, and totally receptive to the concept of my submitting prints) and I talked about 8X10 prints, matted, in plastic sleeves, which is pretty much what they had in their rack. I submitted some images and got positive feedback- BUT I sort of thought she’d choose a few and offer a price. Instead she said something to the effect of “these are lovely but I’m not sure what you propose in terms of supply & cost”. Now, I have no idea what her budget is but I’m reasonably sure she’s not looking for fine art or archival, or silver gelatin prints. The lab that has been processing my film will make a pretty nice print from a digital file for not a lot of money, and I can probably get a local frame shop I’ve used extensively to give me a bulk price on 10 or so mat jobs. Hopefully they can provide sleeves. If not I can probably get them at a local craft store, or perhaps B&H or the like? Beyond that, I have no idea how to proceed. I know I have to figure out what my total cost would be for Printing Matting Sleeves Shipping But then how do I put a cost on my images? I’d like very much to have these in her gift shop, but don’t want to give stuff away. I suppose I need to find a balance between what I think I need out of this and how badly I’d like just to have my work for sale in her shop. Also considering she’s not having photo prints fly out the door at huge price points. This feels like, at the end of the day, I’m going to get more satisfaction out of this than I am money. But how do I even reply? I was going to say something along the lines of “let me run some costs on my end and get back to you”. But I don’t wish to appear unprofessional, or unprepared, or un anything? Should I just ask her what she’s done with the other photographers whose work she’s selling? Do I need to worry about saying something that will seem to set some precedent? Is she some shrewd buyer who has set some trap for me to fall into? Am I overthinking this? So here I am asking WWPN (what would Photo.net) do? Help, please. Thanks in advance. Tom
Sandy Vongries Posted August 24, 2019 Posted August 24, 2019 What do similar prints retail for in the shop? What margin does the shop require (starting guesstimate probably around 30%)? What will it cost you per image unit delivered to the shop? If you think in terms of 10, your cost per unit will be higher than on hundred or multi hundred. What money is left in the space between your costs and current retail less their margin. Research and Math. Is it worthwhile for you? 1
Tony Parsons Posted August 24, 2019 Posted August 24, 2019 Basically three things spring to mind - hope you don't mind me being blunt. Firstly, is some form of 'vanity publishing' acceptable to you - i.e. you lose money on the deal, but you have the satisfaction of seeing your work for sale ? Secondly, are you happy doing this 'at cost' - i.e. you get paid just enough to cover your outgoings ? Thirdly, and probably the option with the most hassle / stress / etc - do you want to make a profit ? If so, how much (5% ? 10% ? 20 % ? More ?). is it worth going for a lower profit margin and getting repeat orders ? Are you liable for tax on the profits you make, and can you write off any expenses against this ? Would the Museum be your only outlet for these prints (i.e. are you giving them exclusive use [but NOT the copyright !], or would you be able to sell elsewhere ? Is the subject matter your own choice (landscapes etc., possibly) or are they photos of the Museum's exhibits ? If the latter, then this would need to be taken into account, as the Museum may feel that any income from such images should be for their benefit, in which case you may be able to negotiate a higher profit margin for these images. If the Museum has not considered this, you could suggest it to them, to your mutual benefit. I feel it is certainly acceptable to advise her that you need to do some costing before agreeing anything, and to enquire about payments to other photographers - if possible, present the Museum with several choices of quantity and cost. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Have fun ! 1
Ricochetrider Posted August 24, 2019 Author Posted August 24, 2019 I think she had 8X10s, matted & sleeved, at about £25 (museum in England). According to the currency calculator on my phone that’s about 30-31 US dollars. So if she needs a 30% profit margin that means I need to get prints in her hand at no more than about 22.00
Tony Parsons Posted August 24, 2019 Posted August 24, 2019 If you don't mind me asking, whereabouts in the UK is the museum ? This may have a bearing on what you can charge - if it is in a 'poorer' area, their budget may be lower.
William Michael Posted August 25, 2019 Posted August 25, 2019 I think she had 8X10s, matted & sleeved, at about £25 (museum in England). According to the currency calculator on my phone that’s about 30-31 US dollars. So if she needs a 30% profit margin that means I need to get prints in her hand at no more than about 22.00 If you go down the route of quoting your price based upon on her retail pricing, then the above may be providing a flawed guideline for you. For clarity, there is a difference between profit and mark-up (or margin). Firstly there are two profits: net and gross. As an example, taking the numbers above and working in pounds: Sell price £25, if she has 30% margin (that’s mark-up) then she needs to buy at about £19. Depending upon how the accounting methods treat some on-costs, especially tax, and if we IGNORE all those factors and accounting then, that is a Gross Profit of about 30% - as you implied. However, the business has other costs, (rent, utilities, wages, insurance, advertising, etc) and in a retail sales business these costs will be (should be) spread across the widgets being sold to establish a better idea of what margin is required for the business to survive and produce a net profit. Additionally, many retail sales widget businesses factor in self life and turn-around (or turn-over). Self life is probably forever for your prints, but turn-around might be relevant. Turn-around is how long the item sits on the shelf after it is paid for and before the sale price is reckoned in the ledger. The point of mentioning turn-around, is that it is better for a business to pay £19 for one item and sell it within 24 hours than to pay £19 for ten items and have 5 remaining unsold after 2 months. Anyway, all of the above provides a simple outline to explain that I think that your ballpark figure of 30% a way off the target. I think that it would be more realistic, if this gift shop is a business which is NOT subsidized by the museum trust and it needs to produce a net profit, I think that it would be wiser to assume she needs a margin (mark-up) of at least 80%, more likely in the order of 100% to 150%. WW 2
Ricochetrider Posted August 25, 2019 Author Posted August 25, 2019 Ah. Thank you! I replied to her suggesting 8X10s matted & sleeved (as discussed between us) and asked her what she’s done with other photographers in the past. I also asked her to lay out her expectations to establish some sort of baseline. She does have some matted images for sale there, so some precedent must have been set, yes? Although, for all i know they were shot by her husband and given to her to sell... point being that assumptions won’t get very far. Thanks, everyone! 1
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