A very beginner question

[michael_schirmer]

Im so much a beginner at this that i don't even own a SLR right now.

 

I am looking to buy an SLR and my attention has fallen between the

Nikon N65 or the N80. I have to have a camera that is easy enough

for my wife to use right now. But my plans are to fully learn all i

can about the camera's abilities. From all my readings it appears

that this will certainly not be a camera for me to learn the trick of

the trade on.

 

I like the Nikons buy i don't know if the N80 is too much camera for

me right now, being the complete beginner. Any thoughts? Would the

N65 be enough for me to learn all i need to learn for several years

before i can advance to a more advanced camera or should i get a

extend myself to the N80 to learn on?

 

My intents for using the camera are going to range from family to the

outdoors. Im not sure that i will be using it for any portraits that

much.

[federico_mena_quintero]

If you can afford it, get the N80. It is much more useable than the N65 as it has two control wheels (one for aperture and the other one for shutter speed), rather than the single one in the N65 plus a quirky Shift key.

 

Get a good lens, not a slow zoom. The 50mm f/1.8 is really cheap, really light, and optically really good; if you can spend a bit more money you may want to go for the 50/1.4.

 

If your wife doesn't want to learn photography the N80 is good as well; just set it to Program mode and it will be all automatic.

 

Congratulations on your first SLR! You'll have a lot of fun with it.

[dale_cotton]

It sounds as though you are attracted to the N80 but fear it will overwhelm your wife. As Frederico says, that's not a problem - a flick of a dial and both cameras turn into fully automatic point-and-shoots. Your assessment of the N65, that it's "certainly not be a camera for me to learn the trick of the trade on" is accurate. Its design puts the emphasis on automatic transmission rather than stick shift, where the N80 is equally good both ways.

 

Incidentally, if you haven't already, you may want to read the review of the N80 on this site by choosing Equipment then Equipment Reviews from the grey bar menu above.

[klix]

I agree -- between the two, the N80 would be a better choice, since you can turn it into a P&S, if need be... but I think that's the caveat for most beginners -- it's too easy to turn it into a P&S. If you're serious about learning and can resist the temptation, then yes, go with the N80... if you think you might fall prey to being lazy, I'd say the better learning tool would be a completely manual camera like the FM-10.

[mark_jordan3]

Hi Michael, Good advice given above. I would also vote for the N80, give yourself some room to grow...it may seem like a lot of camera at first, but the point and shoot modes get old quickly. My wife's level of comfort/interest is like yours and she has no problem with my F100 which has a very similar feel to it.

[hugh_t]

Either camera (I've owned both) can function as easily as the most basic point and shoot with an auto focus lens(in program mode). So even a novice will be able to get great photos with either camera. I like the N-80, IMO it's quieter, focuses faster, and feels more substantial(better made) in my hands. I know you are going to get alot of advice to buy the 50mm 1.8 lens, which I think is great, but there is nothing wrong with starting out with the zoom they include in alot of packages. You can always start with the zoom and see how it suits you and how much you use the camera before you get too caught up in buying more equipment. If money isn't an issue get the 28-70mm AFS f2.8 and you won't ever have to upgrade your standard lens.

[dan_andrews]

I use an N80 often, and recently a student of mine purchased an N65 and asked me to help her learn its features. So I have some comparison...

 

The N80 is an easier camera to use in most respects. Set it to "M" and switch to Manual Focus and the controls are logical and allow you to adjust the various settings with ease. Set it to "P" and Autofocus and you have, essentially, a point-and-shoot camera. That's perhaps the best advantage about the N80.

 

A bit further on, you will probably want to learn how to use your camera more extensively, and gain greater control over it. The N80 allows you to learn bit-by-bit, and it is a very easy system to figure out.

 

The N65, on the other hand, really only works well as a Point-and-Shoot camera, with hard-to-understand manual settings. At best, it seemed to offer limited control over photographic technique, and the various symbols and settings were less straightforward to both me and my student.

 

Nikon just announced their N75 model. If price is an issue for you, wait a few months and see what the N75 lists for before you buy an N65. But if you can afford an N80, I highly recommend it.

[vedearduff]

Michael,

 

Two points in favor of the N80 that I've not seen mentioned in this thread.

 

The N80 will allow you to set the ISO rating manually, the N65 does not allow for this. This is useful if you want to up-rate or down-rate your film. It is also useful if you decide to purchase your film in bulk and load your own film canisters.

 

There have been times when I needed to uprate a roll due to a lack of light. I have up-rated Fuji NPZ (an ISO 800 film) at 1600 when the light level was lower than anticipated and flash was not an option.

 

Some films may give better results when down-rated. There are times when I down-rate Ilford XP2 Super (an ISO 400 chromogenic B&W film) to 200 to get even finer grain.

 

The N80 accepts a standard shutter release cable that screws into the shutter release button. The N65 requires an electronic cord.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Vernon

[yossi_gofman]

Michael,

 

I¡¦d like to contribute an unorthodox opinion in answer to your questions.

 

IMO if you are a beginner and want to study photography, go digital. Like many similar trades, photography (especially in the learning stage) relies mostly on trial and error. There are two key components here.

 

First the trial ¡V the more you try the better are your chances to get the hang of it. However, in film photography trying a lot means paying a lot. So after a while, depending on the digital camera you buy (and assuming you take the trial thing seriously), the camera will have had paid for itself.

 

Second the error ¡V Almost always, but especially when you are new to photography, it is very important to try, analyze, understand your mistakes and then try to improve. Here the most important thing is immediate feedback. With film photography the cycle is extremely long (finishing a roll, processing, printing) and to really learn and improve you need to manually record the details of your shots (lighting, speed, aperture etc.). Then, once you see the result, you may want to have another go at something but it just might be out of reach. Typically, when shooting on field trips, away from your usual whereabouts, at parties and occasions, and when shooting kids, you just don¡¦t have a second chance. Whereas with digital, you shoot, you get to see the picture immediately, you get and instant feedback and ground for improvement plus the original composition is (almost always) still there.

 

Having been shooting for the last 20 years with some relatively good results, I bought a digital camera 2 month ago (Nikon D100) and am happy (ashamed �º ) to say that I am literally relearning photography!

 

As for the wife (I also have one) ¡V and that¡¦s the beauty of it ¡V you just set the camera to P and instantly your wife becomes semi pro.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Yossi

[juaini]

"The N80 will allow you to set the ISO rating manually, the N65 does not allow for this. " - But you can set exposure compensation for the entire roll, which will essentially doing the same thing as setting ISO. That said, I never had to do this until I started shooting Kodak TCN (I like it overexposed by 1/2 a stop, but that's just a personal preference). Whether or not you want or use this feature depends on what you shoot, the film you shoot, and "the look" that you want from your pictures.

 

Since you say you're so much a beginner, I don't think you need to worry about this. You should worry more about technique, composition, lighting, etc. Although, Vernon is absolutely right about bulk-loading film yourself.

 

"The N65 requires an electronic cord. " - Actually it's a remote control, and it costs less than $20 at Adorama or B&H. It's only a minor nit, and you might not even need a remote release, depending on what you shoot.

 

In any case, I've used the N65 for about 8 or 9 months now. I know it inside out, and I can confidently say that I can operate it in my sleep. It's not as hard to use as people say it is. I use mostly Aperture priority, and if in a pinch, I apply exposure compensation instead of switching to Manual exposure. It's just a workaround that gives the same results without having to switch modes. It's also a trick that you can apply to any other camera, not just the N65, although on other cameras it might be simpler to just switch modes...

 

I guess you can tell that I do have a lot of tricks up my sleeve to work around the N65's limitations. And they're really not hard to remember or apply, but you just need to understand certain photographic concepts so that you know what you're trying to achieve when using these workarounds. But even if you end up buying an F5 it would be just great if you did learn the photographic concepts anyway *hint*

 

The only thing that I really wish the N65 had was a spotmeter (which the upcoming N75 has, by the way). Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy with it, and I don't foresee myself wanting or needing a more sophisticated body within the next year or so. If I step up to something better, I'd still keep my N65 for when I want something small and light.

 

Consider buying an N65, learning the basics, then trade up if you feel like you need something better. After all, the N80 is almost twice the price of an N65 (which was my biggest consideration when I was looking to purchase). You may be able to test the waters without plunging into it headfirst.

[sarah_robertson_glasgow]

I just bought a used N80 really cheap from a well-known e-auction site and, while I'm still struggling a bit to get used to the different layout & extra functions compared to my old SLR, I must say that it is truly a great camera. I am coming to appreciate a great many features on this model now that I have them at my disposal (spot metering, mechanical cable release, multiple exposure, 5 different flash modes, gridlines on the viewfinder to help with composition) and which my old camera did not offer. Not that I know how to use them properly yet, but I am learning, and it's really opened up the wonderful world of photography for me.

 

Would definitely recommend it. Just try not to use it in Program Mode all the time! If the bug bites really deep, you can always get a manual camera to complement it (as I plan to).