Zeiss Ikon, N + Ikon = Nikon?

[davidrosen]

I am reading The History of Photography, Beaumont Newhall, Museum of Modern Art, NY 1982. On page 221 he writes, "... as in the popular Nokon F, introduced shortly after World War II by Zeiss Ikon of Dresden as the Contax S." I have been googling questions about Zeiss Ikon, Nikon F and Contax S, trying to confirm if this camera really was originally manufactured in Germany or if this is a mistake. My Nikon F was manufactured in Japan in 1971.

[John Seaman]

It is a mistake. They are completely different cameras.

[John Seaman]

By the way, the similarity of the names did have a consequence. When Nikon introduced the Nikomat, I remember reading somewhere that Zeiss Ikon complained that it could be confused with one of their products, the Ikomat projector. So the Nikomat name was just used in Japan, in other places it was called the Nikkormat.

 

Something similar happened when Olympus introduced their "M" system with the M1 SLR. Whereupon they were gently reminded by Leitz that there was already an M system - by Leica. So the M1 became the OM1. The rare M1 cameras and lenses which came out before the change are of course collectable.

 

Unfortunately the Modern Film Cameras Forum is largely inactive now.

[Sandy Vongries]

Unfortunately the Modern Film Cameras Forum is largely inactive now.

Surprisingly quite a few 35mm & other film cameras are still manufactured - this a few years ago.

Which Film Cameras Are Still Being Made Today: A Comprehensive List

and this at B&H

15 Film Cameras You Can Still Buy Brand New

A few would be tempting, if I didn't have half a dozen older ones on the shelf.

[davidrosen]

By the way, the similarity of the names did have a consequence. When Nikon introduced the Nikomat, I remember reading somewhere that Zeiss Ikon complained that it could be confused with one of their products, the Ikomat projector. So the Nikomat name was just used in Japan, in other places it was called the Nikkormat.

 

Something similar happened when Olympus introduced their "M" system with the M1 SLR. Whereupon they were gently reminded by Leitz that there was already an M system - by Leica. So the M1 became the OM1. The rare M1 cameras and lenses which came out before the change are of course collectable.

 

Unfortunately the Modern Film Cameras Forum is largely inactive now.

Of course they are collectible. And I could kick myself for it.Twenty three years ago I bought a Leica M with two lenses from a Dr. Eisenstadt (no relation to Alfred Eisenstadt, except they were both born in Germany, the former in 1905, the latter in 1898). But I sold it and bought two Mont Blanc Fountain Pens. Oh well.

[brett_rogers]

Of course they are collectible. And I could kick myself for it.Twenty three years ago I bought a Leica M with two lenses from a Dr. Eisenstadt (no relation to Alfred Eisenstadt, except they were both born in Germany, the former in 1905, the latter in 1898). But I sold it and bought two Mont Blanc Fountain Pens. Oh well.

David, that whooshing noise you may have heard was the sound of John's comment going over your head. He was referring to the early Olympus SLRs sold with "M1" markings, prior to the model name being changed to "OM-1"as being collectible, not to Leica M cameras. He's right, too.

[Wouter Willemse]

Just a thought, but maybe the quote is "cut off" a bit awkward?

The Nikon F wasn't introduced shortly after WW2 at all, so as it is presented, the quote makes no sense. However, what would make sense is something like "the pentaprism SLR, ... as in the popular Nokon F, introduced shortly after World War II by Zeiss Ikon of Dresden as the Contax S.

 

As far as I know, the Contax S is indeed amongst the first commercially available SLR cameras, and the Nikon F certainly a camera that made the camera type popular, so that would make sense.

[John Seaman]

I wondered about that but I didn't like to question the accuracy of the OP, or indeed, that of the eminent Mr. Newhall. I did read the book during a course, but can't remember that statement.

[davidrosen]

Just a thought, but maybe the quote is "cut off" a bit awkward?

The Nikon F wasn't introduced shortly after WW2 at all, so as it is presented, the quote makes no sense. However, what would make sense is something like "the pentaprism SLR, ... as in the popular Nokon F, introduced shortly after World War II by Zeiss Ikon of Dresden as the Contax S.

 

As far as I know, the Contax S is indeed amongst the first commercially available SLR cameras, and the Nikon F certainly a camera that made the camera type popular, so that would make sense.

The book was hard to scan but see the attached.

 

[JDMvW]

Not to beat a rapidly expiring horse, but

 

Nikon did have problems because of the similarity (not an accident) of Nikon and Ikon

 

The Nikon rangefinder camera that was the basis (chassis?) of the Nikon F, was itself a clone of the Zeiss Ikon Contax.

 

The East German Contax S is the pioneer (ca. 1948) and it (like the Nikon version, ~1959) was also based on the form of the earlier RF cameras. Similarities are indications of similar, parallel evolutions.

 

It is also true that 1958-9 was "shortly after WWII," if the writer is over 80 years of age.:rolleyes:

Edited October 23, 2018 by JDMvW

[Vincent Peri]

I just read the quote in question. All I can say is, thank goodness for commas. What the quote means is:

 

"A further refinement was the provision of single-lens reflex viewing on a ground glass observed at eye level through a prism introduced shortly after World War II by Zeiss Ikon of Dresden as the Contax S."

 

The phrase, "as in the highly popular Nikon F" is offset by commas, indicating it is a little extra comment. Very confusing way to express it, IMO.

[Wouter Willemse]

As Vincent said indeed. The note on the Nikon F is adding confusion, and nothing of substance to the sentence. But it's merely included to indicate a better known and more popular example than the Contax S would be to the average reader.

[davidrosen]

The sentence is ambiguous. As you clarify, Zeiss Ikon introduced single lens reflex viewing on a ground glass (with the Contax S), made popular by the Nikon F.

[Sandy Vongries]

I recall reading that there was some industrial interchange between Germany and Japan on cameras and lenses shortly before and during WWII - have so far been unable to come up with corroboration. Anyone have a similar memory and source?

[Jochen_S]

@Sandy Vongries : AFAIK all German patents became public domain after WW2, which encouraged countless foreign companies to produce copies of, for example Leica cameras, Zeiss lenses or DKW RT 125 2stroke motorcycles.

While the Soviets started copying Leicas & BMW bikes on their own, the Japanese might have simply used the patents as cookbook?

[Sandy Vongries]

AFAIK all German patents became public domain after WW2,

Thanks - I did come across that, which I didn't previously know.

[JDMvW]

all German patents became public domain after WW2, which encouraged countless foreign companies to produce copies of, for example Leica cameras, Zeiss lenses or DKW RT 125 2stroke motorcycles.

 

It was as a part of reparations for war guilt for WWII. It was proclaimed by the Allied Control Commission which was made up of representatives of each of the Allies (Allied Commission - Wikipedia)

[Jochen_S]

The only sad aspect about those patents (I'm aware of) are soft coated early post-war Leica lenses, since Leitz as a German company still had to respect the Zeiss patents on hard coatings and took a while to come up with an alternative, to make their own.

[JDMvW]

The competition from legal more-or-less identical copies of the LTM Leicas, likely was one of the reasons for the Leica M-3. [i personally find the later Canon RFs to be more fun than the Leicas--they're very nice.]

 

The new M-series, in turn, which was protected by patents, played a major role in Nikon and Canon turning to develop SLR cameras (Nikon has admitted that in one of their historical essays, although subtly.)

Edited October 26, 2018 by JDMvW