tony_salce Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Can anyone tell me whether black enamel M4's were made in Canada ? If so would one bearing the serial number 1302068 be authentic ? Regards, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliot Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Tony. There were NO black enamel M4s made in Canada, but a number of black chrome M4s were made there. That SN you gave is not even for an M4 (my list has it as a CL). But if you meant SN 1382068, that is for a black chrome Canadian M4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_salce Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 Eliot, Thank you for your reply. I made a mistake. The serial number is 138 2068, which as you say makes it a black chrome M4 from Canada. Yet the camera is black enamel. Do you think it is authentic ? The seller( not a list memeber) wants $2000. It is in excellent plus condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliot Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 It is obviously a repaint job. I wouldn't buy. A black chrome Canadian M4 is a fairly scarce and collectible camera, worth $ 3000 plus in nice condition. But I'm afraid its collectible value is destroyed by the repainting. That's me, I like everything completely original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy. Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 According to Ghester Sartorius book on 'Identifying Leica Cameras', it listed the 138 2068 as a M4, black, Canada, circa 1974. Eliot is probably right about there is no black paint M4 from Canada. That I wouldn't know. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_rocha Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Tony, A small number of M4's in black paint were produced in Midland Canada, and according to Stephen Gandy's list which you can find at www.cameraquest.com, SN1382068 is in that list. Also if you check the leica SN at the official Leica website, this SN is in fact a black paint M4. If it is authentic then it is a real bargain at $2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_rocha Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 By the way, the link for the Leica website enquiry is http://www.leica-camera.com/cgi-bin/overview.pl/en/sn2p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_rocha Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Tony, I made a big mistake in the information above. In enquiring in the Leica website, the serial number quoted is in fact an M4 schwarz, which translates to M4 black chrome, and not black paint which will be schwar1. Also Stephen Gandy's list for black M4 produced in Canada does not state it is black paint or black chrome, but elsewhere in his site, he mentioned that M4 were produced in black paint up to the time of M5 production. I believe this was around 1974. My apologies for giving the wrong information, due to my misinterpretation of schwarz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliot Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Tony Rocha. You do understand that the Gandy list that says 1382068 is in a batch of 550 black Canadian M4s is referring to black chrome M4s. ALL Canadian M4s were either silver chrome or black chrome. There were NO black paint Canafian M4s. At least no genuine ones. Black paint M4s were made until about 1971. This camera is from 1974, by which time black paint was no longer used. I can assure you that your contention that this is an original BP Canadian M4 is WRONG. There is no such thing. Nor is there any such thing listed on any Leica camera list. None. Nada. Nil. Zilch. Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_rocha Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Eliot, Acknowledge my mistake, see my previous posting. Much regret for making such a goof which is purely unintentional. Mia culpa!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec1 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Tony. Don't you mean mea culpa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliot Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Tony R. No problemo. Tony S. Have you actually seen the camera. Some people mistakenly use the term "paint" for black (anodized) chrome cameras; so if you haven't seen it, it could be just a black chrome Canadian M4. In which case $ 2000 is quite a good price for an E+ example. I'm not quite sure why anyone would take a black chrome camera and paint it, but there's a lot of strange stuff goiung on out there. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_salce Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 Thanks to all for responding. Eliot I have seen the camera and it looked to me like black paint. I wil recheck it this weekend. If it is black anodised you say that $2000 is a reasonable figure for that camera in nice condition ? Regards, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliot Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 It's a rather low asking price for a working condition E+ cosmetics origianl black anodized Canadian M4. It should, of course, be engraved Midland Canada on the top plate. If I had one, and if I wanted to sell, I would ask more money (at least $ 3000, maybe more, depending upon condition). You just have to make sure it is all original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_salce Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 Eliot, Thanks again for your reply. I will check the camera thorougly before I go ahead. Thanks again for your advice. Regards, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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