camera mulfunctioning: could it be the extreme cold???

[taner]

Hi

 

Could the extreme cold cause a camera body to fail to expose

portions of a film roll (approximately two thirds of my rolls go

unexposed)?

 

I am having serious problems with my Minolta X-70 (X-GM) which is

still under repair-warranty. It has gone back to repair for a second

time but the following problem still persists:

 

When I take pictures outdoors in the cold - we are talking minus 5 to

minus 25 degrees celsius, which is the equivalent of plus 23 to minus

13 degrees fahrenheit - approximately two thirds of my film rolls go

UNexposed. Those that are exposed are done so properly, even with

less forgiving color reversal film. This was the case with three

different brands of film.

 

With those three rolls, I used three different lenses - and the

results were the same. So I guess that rules out the lens as the

source of the problem - am I right?

 

I used the same camera today, - indoors at room temperature - all

frames in the roll were properly exposed!

 

I opened the camera, and pressed the shutter at room temperature, and

it seems to work, and the shutter curtain seems to do its job

properly, letting me see through at the time of exposure.

 

I will run one final test before I take the camera back to repair

again: leave it out in the cold for an hour or so, and shoot half a

roll of film outdoors, and then come back home, leave the camera in

an airtight bag for an hour, and shoot the rest of the film.

 

I would greatly appreciate any help/suggestions, and if you could

please share with me any similar experience and results.

 

AT

[lee_brand]

Hi. Here is how I would test it. Take it out into the cold. Where are you?

 

Let the camera get cold - open the back, set the camera to 1/15, lowest stop - say 1.4 and then shoot while watching the shutter from the back. Then stop it down to 5.6 and confirm that you see the closed down lens as you fire. Set it on f16 and repeat. Do this a couple of times and make sure that you see what you set. Change speeds up and down. Repeat the tests. Post what you see.

[robert_roaldi1]

Ditto on the above. I would add that you should run the test with fresh batteries in order to remove one variable from the test.

[yance_marti]

For extended periods of time in the cold, the lubricants in a camera shutter will get more viscous causing the shutter to close more slowly or even stick. If you use it alot in the cold, which I wouldn't suggest with an electronic camera, take it to a camera service center where they can use a colder weather lubricant. Camera batteries will also expire quickly in the cold. The best option is to keep a few disposable chemical heat packets in the camera bag and only remove the camera when necessary. When it gets that cold I usually only use my mechanical F1 and bring it out only for a quick pic.

[taner]

Hello again

 

and thank you for the responses - here is an update:

 

Last night I carried out the test suggested by Lee and Robert, and the camera functioned o.k., but I think it was because I did not leave it in the cold for long enough.

 

Today I loaded a cheap 24 film, left the camera out in the cold of the Canadian winter (minus 15 C - plus 5 F) for 2 hours and then attempted to take photos. After the first frame, the camera completely died on me - pressing the shutter did not bring out an response from the camera. No meter reading, no little red light when I press the battery-check button. 15 minutes inside at room temperature, and everthing back to normal, and I was able to take more shots.

 

Obviously the non functioning meter problem this time was related to the low battery power, and I assume that since the camera could not set the shutter speed, it would not release the shutter - I am using it on 'aperture priority automatic' mode.

 

But what about the previous failures? I am quite sure that the batteries were fresh with the first three rolls of film I tested, and the repair people would have double checked that.

 

So the 'lubricant failure - sticky shutter curtain' explanation of Yance makes a lot of sense to me here - except, are the lubricants inside the camera really volatile enough to change their state significantly enough to make a difference in 15 minutes?

 

Any information as to what I should specifically tell the reapir people with regard to the 'cold weather lubricant' would be appreciated.

 

All in all, this is very frustrating, because I was so enthusiastic about this semi automatic, early 1980s Minolta camera; I thought that with this camera I would enjoy a degree of 'ruggedness and reliablity' and a cheap lens line up which I could not afford in today's camera models.

 

Thanks again.

[mats nilson photography]

I routinely shoot in -30 to -35 centigrades with a Nikon F5 and have no problems other than a somewhat higher battery consumption. However, I used to shoot with an old Hasselblad (all mechanic) which gave up on me in those temperatures. I had the factory completely relubricate both the body and lenses for low to moderate temperatures and then it worked fine. I wouldn't have taken that gear to somewhere really hot, though. If I may speculate, I think maybe grease gets stickier when it gets old and therefore more prone to freeze-ups. That's why my new Nikon manages where an old Hasselblad didn't, yet did when tended to.

[lee_brand]

Hi - OK we are getting warmer - What kind of batteries are you using? My XD 11 takes two SR 44's - LR44's dont last as long - Silver Oxide vs Alkaline - I suggest the silver oxide. Wow it sure is cold there - it is 32 degrees C here today :-) Also make sure that the camera battery contacts are clean. Try and keep the batteries warm and place them in the cold camera - if it works with warm batteries then....

 

It could be the lube that has gone gummy and then goes solid in the cold - but from what you say it sounds like a mini blackout that is happening in the camera. I would say that more than 50% of (older)camera problems I encounter have something to do with batteries.

 

My XD11 gets lazy if you dont use it for a while - do you use your Minolta often? Failing all the other advise given I would say that you will have to take it to the repair person :-(

[lee_brand]

Just checked my battery info - I got it the wrong way around - the LR44 (A76) is a manganese dioxide cell (Alkaline) that will give 50% of its capacity at -20C - the SR44 is a Silver Oxide that is recommended down to -18C. Not a hell of a difference is it? Have a look at energizer.com. The temperature you are talking about is at the very fringe of battery function.

[mike_elek]

Askin,

 

Without a doubt, cold weather is the culprit. Most camera lubricants thicken as they get colder, and in extreme cold they also harden, especially as they age and pick up minute pieces of dust and debris. So it's no surprise this is happening.

 

As well, two tiny button cells also will freeze. This is a well-known problem with batteries. Even flashlight batteries will stop working in extreme cold. Heck, even car batteries have known to freeze.

 

If you want to shoot in extreme cold, most people suggest keeping the camera inside your jacket against the warmth of your body and then bringing it out to take your photo.

 

Also remember that in extreme cold, film gets brittle and might crack. There also is the additional problem of static electricity inside the camera as the plastic film base is drawn across the felt lip of the film cassette. This becomes an even bigger issue with motorized film advance and high-speed rewinders.

 

Best of luck.

[taner]

I would not be exaggrating if I said I am mightly impressed with the power and functionality of cyber-communities like photo.net after this experience.

 

Thank you all so much for the emphaticall and sincere responses.

 

Tomorrow I will present all your inputs to my impossibly enthusiastic and genuine 'mom & pop camera repair shop' guy (he is no stranger to today's technologies either). He has already told me about some of the remedies and compromises with regard to shooting during Canadian Winters.

 

A little winter proof lubrication, an additional set of Silver Oxide batteries which I will keep next to my skin, and my Minolta and the t-max 400 inside my coat as I carry it through the streets of Toronto; I am more confident now.

 

I greatly appreciate the time you took to respond to my rather amateur problem.

 

Cheers