So the Nex has me interested now.

[kevin_b.2]

<p>I have an interest in the Nex system, heres why.<br>

1. Ability to use many Canon/Nikon/Sony/Leica lenses, I have no issues with manual focus.<br>

2. Live view<br>

3. No mirror so I assume mirror lockup feature is irrevelant.</p>

<p>My only concern is the IQ, and can the NEX do AEB, and how fluid is the menu.<br>

I will maybe try one out at Best Buy when I get a chance. If the IQ (resolution, DR, noise) is good (although I really doubt it will be A900 quality) I might consider it. Keep in mind I am only concerned with stitching photos on a tripod. For everything else I will stick to my A850.</p>

[ricardovaste]

<p>Kevin, if you're stitching photos on a tripod, this is a waste of both time and money, but if you have that go for it! Your A850 is perfect for that job.</p>

[timb196]

<p>Funny enough, I have an interest in the NEX, although not enough at present to buy one and that is to use with the MC/MD adapter. I would love to see what my 800mm Rf and my 600mm/6.3 do with a digital sensor! So I guess I can understand where Kevin is coming from on (1)<br>

Tim</p>

[ricardovaste]

<p>Tim, have you considered a glass less adapter for your sr-mount lenses, to a-mount? With lenses that long, you could still likely get some joy without the need for infinity focus :-)</p>

[paul_de_ley]

<p>Likewise I'll be interested in using Canon FD mount lenses on NEX - though I'll wait for a followup model that doesn't inflict as much of a "camera interface for dummies" philosophy.</p>

<p>Right, like Rich writes you don't have to wait for NEX to mount a digital camera on your MD teles Tim. A glassless MD to alpha (or EOS or Nikon) adapter costs approx $20 and would be about 6mm wide, similar to the glassless Canon FD adapter I use with some of my manual focus lenses. You should be able to focus out to at least 20 yards away on the 600mm and even more on the 800mm.</p>

[kevin_b.2]

<p>i just realized, how am i supposed to control aperture if its not a manual lens. i think some of the adapter have a built in knob but not all of them...<br>

hmm...</p>

 

[timb196]

<p>Richard/Paul<br>

As a matter of fact, I do have an adapter albeit one with glass in it! Just for jollies, one night I took the 800 out and put a Minolta 2x TC on it with the adapter and a A700. Figuring the crop factor in with a 1.1 factor for the adapter, I got something on the order of 2600+mm equivalent. I then tried to hand hold it to see what the SSS would do.<br>

Not very successful I'm afraid!!!! Although one was marginally passable You would also need a very stout tripod for that shot!<br>

Aiming it was also incredibly difficult.<br>

What got me thinking about the NEX was balance. I would not have the mass of the a700 hanging on the back of the lens so the center of gravity would be around the tripod mounting point and thus you would not have the body mass dragging down on the tripod head at high angles of attack, plus you would not have the overall weight to lug around with you :-) (I'm getting ancient so now I worry about these things).<br>

I really need to try this again with the a700 with the wooden tripod from the LF days and MLU engaged. Both the 800 and the 600 are very good lenses. The 800rf puts the 500 RF AF to shame with regard to sharpness!<br>

Tim</p>

<p> </p>

[elijah_free]

<p>Tim, the a700 has mirror lock up? Have I missed something very important? Let me know, thanks, elijah</p>

[ricardovaste]

<p>Tim, that's brilliant & hilarious! A sturdy tripod needed for sure :). If you're interested in a NEX for handholding your Rokkor monsters, I don't think you've have much joy there either! I would definately knock out the glass (take it apart and remove it) and then give it another go with your A700 and a tripod :)</p>

<p>Elijah, yes, the A700 has the 2second MLU, carried over from the late Minolta days.</p>

[elijah_free]

<p>Thanks Richard, I knew about the 2 sec MLU. I misread and it sounded to me like there was a mechanical MLU lock like in the old SLR days. Wouldn't that be nice. cheers,</p>

[timb196]

<p>Richard:<br>

It really was to see how far I could push the SSS! and to see how big a moon in terms of scale I could get. It turns out the moon damn near filled the whole frame at least in the vertical axis.<br>

There are some other lenses I would like to try including my 135mm/f1.8 that was made by a 3rd party in Japan that really is very good and , of course, the remarkable 50mm f1.2, the Vivitar Series 1 90-180mm flat field lens. My real intent behind the NEX though was to use the 600 and 800 on a gimbal head.<br>

I just think given the apparent performance of the NEX sensor, I'd find out out how good these lenses really are and the mass/balance would be based on the lens alone, thus obviating high angle issues on the tripod head. Obviously, I'm not concerned about the SSS in this case; it is more about the exploring the ability to see if the resolution and contrast of these lens will match with a high performance digital sensor.<br>

And, Elijah, I was referring to the 2s MLU which I really don't consider to be true MLU. Then with the NEX I don'thave that problem, do I?<br>

Cheers<br>

Tim</p>

 

[john_tran14]

<p>Tim Broadley wants to use it for MD/MC lenses. Paul wants to use it with FD lenses, and the OP wants to use it with Canon, Nikon, Leica lenses. These lenses are all manual. The main idea of the NEX is to make a simple "DSLR" that is smaller and cheaper than normal DSLR.</p>

<p>So I suggest that the NEX is not simple enough yet. It should be simplified as followed:</p>

<p>1. The lens mount is only mechanical, there is no need for any coupling</p>

<p>2. Aperture setting and focusing will be manual and done by the lenses, the NEX doesn't have to worry about any of that.</p>

<p>3. Instead of making any lenses for the NEX, Sony should only make adapters to mount the above mentioned lenses on a NEX</p>

<p>4. Shooting RAW only so there is no need for WB, or any menu at all</p>

<p>5. Only need a button to set ISO, and a dial to set shutter speed</p>

<p>6. At least need a PC sync or better a wireless flash control</p>

<p>7. It's not necessary but it doesn't hurt either to have face recognition feature that works this way: whenever the camera sees a face is in focus, it draws a red frame around that face</p>

[timb196]

<p>John:<br>

I suppose the general thread of this conversation leads you to those conclusions. I've never handled a NEX so I don't know about it's U/I other than what I've read. However, I would not be opposed to a light weight high quality camera for purposes other than using as it as a mount for MC/MD lenses<br>

I've often thought about a Leica as I would like to try my hand at the Cartier-Bresson school of street photography. That said, I'm not interested in paying $6K for that camera. I might go after a film version but that seems like somewhat of a waste for me and I would probably rather go for a modern and cheaper Voightlander Bessa. The problem I see with the NEX as a street camera is not the U/I as I understand it but rather the shutter noise.<br>

So I guess a lightweight NEX with a compact 50mm and a quiet shutter would intrigue me! and I could get my digital MC/MD box.</p>

<p>Tim</p>

[john_tran14]

<blockquote>

<p>to try my hand at the Cartier-Bresson school of street photography</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Tim, Cartier used film, he didn't use PS</p>

[bill_tuthill]

I gotta say, after borrowing a Canon G11, which has too many buttons, I am starting to think NEX is the way to go.

 

Does anybody know why it is so noisy, not having a flippin' mirror?

[john_tran14]

<blockquote>

<p>why it is so noisy</p>

</blockquote>

<p>the noise is the shutter noise. All other cameras with focal plane shutter including the Leica screwmount have a bigger and thicker body covering which will reduce the noise a lot. The NEX must be noisy because it is small</p>

[john_tran14]

<p>and the Leica III series for example is noisy too (they have no flipping mirrors)</p>

[paul_de_ley]

<p>Hm, I played with a nex-3 in a photo store but didn't realize it had a genuine mechanical shutter instead of an electronic one! Why so? Makes it a lot less useful for candid shots compared to regular point&shoots or competing EVIL cameras?</p>

[timb196]

<p>John:<br />I'm well aware that Mr. Cartier Bresson used film! I'm not interested in buying another film camera. I merely postulated that the NEX "Might" provide a camera that would allow me to explore that style in a digital format.<br>

I'm not yet convinced that it will. I currently use a Canon G10 for that kind of thing but I'm not entirely enamored with it</p>

[john_tran14]

<p>Tim:<br>

If you just want street photography, any camera will do and the best may be the 1Ds. But if you want to pretend like Bresson, you got to use the same camera like his or at least a film camera. For example, a Yashica T4 would be closer to Bresson style than the G10. And if you don't want to use film anymore, don't mention his name, just say "street photography" like others do</p>

<p>Paul:<br>

Check out the specification here<br>

<a href="http://www.adorama.com/alc/news/Sony-NEX-5-Specifications">http://www.adorama.com/alc/news/Sony-NEX-5-Specifications</a><br>

it says: Shutter Type Electronically-controlled, vertical-traverse, focal-plane type<br>

It's not mechanical fully like the SRT-101 but it's more like the Alpha series cameras</p>

[john_tran14]

<blockquote>

<p>compared to regular point&shoots</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Paul, Sony wants to consider it as a "mirrorless DSLR" and not as an "interchangable lens P&S". A main reason that DSLR has better IQ and a lot less shutter lag is the focal plane shutter. An in-lens leaf shutter may have the same effect but leaf shutter so far only has highest shutter speed 1/1000 and all the DSLR lens have no in-lens shutter</p>

[paul_de_ley]

<p>Yes, I'm just wondering why the NEXes need a mechanical shutter at all? Does that determine response time/shutter lag?</p>

<p>Not doubting that they have one - it just hadn't occurred to me as I had read over shutter specs in my previous online reading about the NEX models. And no offense intended to point & shoots but after having held the NEX-3 in my hands and tried out the two-and-half buttons interface I would definitely not classify it as a DSLR! Plus the "better IQ due to larger sensor" sales pitch doesn't necessarily hold water. According to a triple review of mirrorless cameras in Popular Photography's July 2010 issue, the Panasonic G2 actually produces slightly sharper images than NEX or Samsung NX, and the Olympus E-PL1 is less noisy than NEX all the way up to iso 1600.</p>

[john_tran14]

<p>As I have stated in other thread, NEX will be another failure. And I don't consider anything mirrorless as an SLR. Sharpness is more about lens, shaking, and post processing (even in camera) than about sensor</p>

<p>Personally, I consider the NEX as a P&S because of the interface and the size</p>

[timb196]

<p>Paul: I read the Pop Photo article and did not quite get the same impression as you did<br>

For reference<br>

<a href="http://www.popphoto.com/sony/2010/07/shoot-out-interchangeable-lens-compacts?page=0,1">http://www.popphoto.com/sony/2010/07/shoot-out-interchangeable-lens-compacts?page=0,1</a><br>

And at least it wasn't compared to the Oly, it was the Panasonic and the Samsung. Was there a different review?<br>

I think one of the issues with NEX from an IQ point of view is that all we have at this point is the kit lenses. It will be interesting to see what Sony does in this regard.<br>

With regard the DLSR versus P&S argument, frankly IMO that is irrelevant. This , in a way, goes back to the rangefinder versus SLR arguments. The fact is that NEX has a focal plane shutter and no mirror is merely an implementation. These types of cameras are going to define another niche or marketplace so I'm not sure trying to put them in a box is necessarily relevant. The light tight box though the decades has often taken on different physical forms for different purposes. However these light tight boxes were largely constrained by mechanical and optical factors. They involved into some fairly standardized forms (SLR, RF, MF with and without mirror etc). However, coupling the light tight box with modern electronics (including video) seems to me at least pushing towards something different. The synergy between electronics processing and the optical systems is going to continue to evolve and I suspect will stretch many of our notions when all is said and done. Not sure where we will be in 10 years but I suspect the tools we use will challenge us in many ways and the way we do things now may not be the way we do it then.</p>

<p>cheers<br>

Tim</p>

 

[paul_de_ley]

<blockquote>

<p>And at least it wasn't compared to the Oly, it was the Panasonic and the Samsung. Was there a different review?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Hi Tim: pop photo refer to a previous review of the Oly E-PL1, see about halfway down in the page you linked to. I'm not suggesting that NEX image quality would be disappointing, just noting that the competition is actually doing at least as good in important aspects of image quality even though their mirrorless cameras have significantly smaller sensors.</p>

<p>In larger context it seems to me definitely a good thing that Sony is contributing new concepts to the inevitable transformation of photography technology. If only they would be a bit more mindful of the full range of digital camera users and get over this phase of self-defeating interface simplification! At the moment it all reminds me a bit too much of Minolta's xi-phase. Hopefully the seemingly visionary but actually not very useful drive towards fewer scary controls & options will be followed by more convincing and full-featured offerings soon (like the si series and single digit maxxums/dynaxes following the xi experiment in Minolta's case).</p>