Disillusioned with Sony takeover

[peter_henry1]

I hope I do not incur anyones wrath (especially the moderators) but I have to

say that I am becoming disillusioned since the Sony purchase of Minolta. I

bought my first Minolta SLR in 1999 (not that long ago by many peoples

standards)and I have had the 500si, Dynax 5, Maxxum 7, and now I have the Dynax

7D. A good camera I believe, but since the Sony buyout there are not many

lenses available for it, and the second hand Minolta lenses seem to be going

for crazy amounts.

 

I hope the situation improves soon and that Sony get their act together.

Otherwise I may switch to Canon!

 

I am willing to give them a chance though, and will wait and see for the next

year.

[weatherman]

They will release new lenses as long as there is demand. They are there to earn money I guess. I'll stay with minolta gear as I'm exteremely happy with their Dynax 5d with antishake.

Good luck!

[peterblaise]

.

 

Hello Peter Henry and fellow Konica Minolta Sony Photographers,

 

Any particular lens you're missing or lookin' for? You only need one of any type, so if there's one out there for you, then you'll be happy, right?

 

"Sony takeover"? "Minolta abandonment", you mean! As I see it, though the Minolta technical people LOVE photography and makin' and using the world's best camera gear, the current team of Konica Minolta MANAGEMENT figured that was just an old, unprofitable hobby, and so Minolta MANAGEMENT as as glad to be rid of those pesky, profitless photo people in their ranks, just as Konica management was to be rid of their non-profitable camera division just a few years earlier. If not for SOny, the team would have been let go and dispersed into oblivion, I think.

 

Hey, there's always Tamron, Sigma and Tokina makin' lenses for us, and if Sony ever gets over their now probably 1/2 BILLION dollar battery fiasco (plus / minus their PlayStation tanking), we may see not only a return of the Minolta lens line rebadged and refined as Sony, but also someday we may see some of that promised Zeiss gla$$! ;-) And I do mean $$!

 

Me? I'm sad there's not more energy behind bringing a full line of Sony Alpha DSLRs to market, but ... wait, right?

 

Peter Henry, what is it about your personal, hands-on experience of Canon that makes you condifent it's appropriate for you, versus your hands-on experience of Minolta?

 

Click! Love and hugs, Peter Blaise peterblaise@yahoo.com Konica Minolta Sony Photographer http://www.peterblaisephotography.com/

 

PS - For our archives, let me quote David Kilpatrick, fearless leader and publisher of the UK Minolta Club

 

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/

 

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and subscribe TODAY!), here, a fablized version of what MAY have been going on behind the scenes with Minolta Japan ...

 

==========

 

The Fallen Geisha

 

An old Japanese folk-tale, discovered in a book of oriential myths and legends, and translated from the original Ancient Sumo script by David Kilpatrick

 

There was once a beautiful Geisha called Minolta (here real name was Chiyoko but she adopted the stage name of Minolta once her fame spread abroad). She had many rivals, and was courted by many suitors. However, her morals were not entirely up to scratch, as unlike her friend Nikon she preferred to go without Nikkors and loved to show off her sparkling Rokkors, flashing them at would-be lovers and saying 'match these rocks if you can'. She was said to the be only girl in Japan with her own diamond mine.

 

Everything went well for Minolta until she fell desperately in love with a handsome German from Wetzlar ...

 

==========

 

... well, go to

 

http : // www . iconpublications . com / f2photo / fallengeisha . html

 

http://www.iconpublications.com/f2photo/fallengeisha.html

 

... and read the rest for yourself!<div></div>

[james_frater]

Well if anyone had any sense, and I for one posted when the takeover happened. The Minolta stuff was going for Fire Sale prices, people were jumping ship left, right and centre. I did not sell, I bought, bought, bought.

 

I picked up at least $800 Aussie Dollars worth of Lenses when people began to offload, which now in total are selling for 4 to 5 times that amount.

 

A 7D Grip, which I bought for A$99, is going for A$399-$499.

 

Seems like people know all this Minolta gear is worth something again cause if fits the current and future Sony DSLR.

 

Maybe you are Disillusioned cause you missed the salvage boat that went out to pick up the sinking Minolta gear, which is now worth treasure.

 

I am sorry to say, at the moment Sony does not need the chance. you just missed it.

[robert_paul1]

Peter, I agree with you on this subject. It is interesting in reading some of the responses you have received. Some one says they're sticking with Sony because they're happy with Sony's 5D. Wasn't the 5D a Konica-Minolta product, not Sony? Another poster tells you to buy lenses made by a third party, then tells you a fairy tale. And another poster says that he made money buying used equipment.

 

None of those responses addresses the concerns that you have raised. Sony may have had initial success with the release of the A100, probably due to people who own Minolta lenses who want a DSLR to use it with. However, this euphoria won't last for long. Sony had a great opening act, they now need to follow-up to show that they are to be taken seriously in the DSLR market.

[peterblaise]

.

 

Earlier in this thread:

 

A4: "... Another poster tells you to buy lenses made by a third party, then tells you a fairy tale ..."

 

Oh please, re-read tje give-and-take post context above:

 

Q1: "... A [have] good camera [in my Konica Minolta Alpha/Dynax/Maxxum 7D] I believe, but since the Sony buyout there are not many lenses available for it ..."

 

A2: "... Hey, there's always Tamron, Sigma and Tokina makin' lenses for us, and if Sony ever gets over their now probably 1/2 BILLION dollar battery fiasco (plus / minus their PlayStation tanking), we may see not only a return of the Minolta lens line rebadged and refined as Sony, but also someday we may see some of that promised Zeiss gla$$! ;-) And I do mean $$! ..."

 

Now, did anyone "tell ... you to buy lenses made by a third party"? No, just that, in answer to one point, "... there are not many lenses available for it ...", well, there ARE! Now, if he wants ONLY Sony-brand or ONLY Konica Minolta brand or ONLY Minolta brand lenses ... or ONLY new lenses and not used ... well, he didn't specify what he was after, specifically, so, let's ask him again:

 

A2: "... Any particular lens you're missing or lookin' for? ..."

 

Well, Peter Henry?

 

Finally,

 

A4: "... Some one says they're sticking with Sony because they're happy with Sony's 5D. Wasn't the 5D a Konica-Minolta product, not Sony? ..."

 

Sure. Typo. Just like puttin' a hyphen between "Konica Minolta" - typo! Some people also just call them merely "Konica" cameras, though THIS forum title misses that point completely! =8^o We all know what we mean - Konica Minolta Sony Alpha Dynax Maxxum = same same. But, of course we should try to specify if we need specific support on one or another model -- read the exact markings on the camera itself before writing in. Simple, no ridicule or endless pointing out typos needed, eh? We can self-moderate this forum if we all pitch in and try to make getting along with each other a prime directive - thanks one and all!

 

Q: "... I bought my first Minolta SLR in 1999 (not that long ago by many [photographer's] standards) and I have had the [Minolta Alpha] Dynax [Maxxum] 500si ... 5 ... 7, and now I have the [Konica Minolta] ... 7D. A good camera I believe ..."

 

In other words, the questioner himself is sticking with "Sony" because, well, because the questioner, like so many of us, have Minolta or Konica Minolta SLRs and DSLRs, so, since we're sticking with our Minolta and Konica Minolta, well, then ... we're sticking with Sony by definition, since Minolta and Konica Minolta folded into Sony! Capiche?

 

Finally finally:

 

A4: "... Peter, I agree with you ..."

 

YES, FINALLY ... FINALLY!

 

=8^o

 

;-)

 

Too many Peters hanging around here?

[peterblaise]

.

 

A4: "... None of those responses addresses the concerns that you have raised ..."

 

Q1: "... there are not many lenses available for it, and the second hand Minolta lenses seem to be going for crazy amounts ..."

 

A2: "... if Sony ever gets over their now probably 1/2 BILLION dollar battery fiasco (plus / minus their PlayStation tanking), we may see not only a return of the Minolta lens line rebadged and refined as Sony, but also someday we may see some of that promised Zeiss gla$$! ;-) And I do mean $$! ..."

 

A3: [paraphrase] I bought when the gettin' was good, but now that the Sony Alpha A100 is apparently so successful, all the spare lenses are being bought up left and right, and prices are appropriately much higher than only a short while ago when no one knew if the line would be worth anything. Apparently, it's worth a great deal! That's a good thing, right? [sorry if I misinterpreted in my paraphrase, but I think I got the point]

 

What more can we do to respond?

 

A4: "... Some one says they're sticking with Sony because they're happy with Sony's 5D ..."

 

A2: "... I'll stay with Minolta gear as I'm extremely happy with their Dynax 5d with antishake ..."

 

... I didn't think anyone mentioned a "Sony 5D" ...

 

==

 

Anyway, Peter Henry, have you gone DIRECTLY to Sony?

 

http://www.sonystyle.com/

 

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=dcc_DIDigitalCameras_style_dslr&ProductSKU=DSLRA100K&TabName=acc&var2=

 

... let us know what you find when ordering DIRECTLY from Sony (free shipping!) -- maybe you'll tell us they really do have loads of lenses but you just don't have loads of cash? :-( Me neither!

[robert_paul1]

Peter, while no poster said "Sony's 5D", they did post "They will release new lenses as long as there is demand. They are there to earn money I guess. I'll stay with minolta gear as I'm exteremely happy with their Dynax 5d with antishake. Good luck!"

 

Since the DSLR assets were bought by Sony and Minolta (aka KonicaMinolta) are separate companies, when the poster said "They will release new lenses", they can't be talking about KonicaMinolta, as they no longer sell the lenses directly to the end users. So, that poster is confused about the subject matter, or he thinks Sony and KonicaMinolta are one and the same..

 

As for your original post, I may have mistakenly attributed something to you, but that is due to your habit of writing in a fashion that is very non-readable. And the format of this forum doesn't make it easy to quickly review any other posts other than the original 'question'. But, I stand by my post, as I found the post were O/T to Peter Henry's 'question', especially your 'fairy tale'.

 

If there was a moderator to this forum, I doubt that any of the responses would be kept for future readers.

[aaron meyer]

<<Peter, while no poster said "Sony's 5D", they did post "They will release new lenses as long as there is demand. They are there to earn money I guess. I'll stay with minolta gear as I'm exteremely happy with their Dynax 5d with antishake. Good luck!"

 

Since the DSLR assets were bought by Sony and Minolta (aka KonicaMinolta) are separate companies, when the poster said "They will release new lenses", they can't be talking about KonicaMinolta, as they no longer sell the lenses directly to the end users. So, that poster is confused about the subject matter, or he thinks Sony and KonicaMinolta are one and the same.. >>

 

Or you're being pedantic.

 

It's infinitely more likely that the poster simply didn't edit as carefully as you prefer. In any case, your argument is a staw man.

 

As for the OP, he bought at least 3 different film bodies in only 6 years. If he can go through bodies like that I am extremely confused as to how he managed to shoot for all that time without acquiring the lenses he needs.

 

I do love the way that everyone seems to think that completely absorbing another company, transferring production to new facilities, and ramping the line up again is something that can be done overnight. Sony is moving on this. It will not happen overnight, but Sony is committed to a system, not just a camera.

[andrew robertson]

"They will release new lenses as long as there is demand."

 

As far as I can tell, they slapped Sony labels on some existing Tamron and Konica-Minolta

lenses, eliminated some of the more interesting (and probably labor intensive) lenses, and

got Zeiss to design one new lens and put a Maxxum mount on the back of two of their

existing lenses.

 

I seriously doubt if Sony will release more lenses unless they release a professional level

DSLR.

[robert_paul1]

"I do love the way that everyone seems to think that completely absorbing another company, transferring production to new facilities, and ramping the line up again is something that can be done overnight. Sony is moving on this. It will not happen overnight, but Sony is committed to a system, not just a camera."

 

Andrew, it has been over a year since Sony announced that they were going to jointly develop DSLP with KonicaMinolta. Even if K/M decided to stay in the camera business, it would of been likely that Sony still would have come out with re-labelled lenses, as it is highly unlikely that Sony would have sold the DSLR without lenses.

 

And Sony knew over six months before the release of the A100 that they were going to go it alone, as the announcement that K/M weas dropping out of the camera business was made in January. Therefore, they had ample time to get organized. The lack of adequate supplies of lenses and lack of product support is not acceptable.

[j.a.]

Hello Peter,

 

 

The ancient Minolta Comp. was able to produce photographic lenses for the professional market, even if the two other companies were (are) dominating this field. In fact, Minolta was orientated towards popular field of photography, having the best balance between quality and prices. I still like the simplicity and the reliability of Minolta's AF bodies, I think they are superior to their level japanese competitors.

 

The main problem occured when Minolta Comp. was overbought by Sony, company having no tradition in the photographic lenses production. For normal photography, you can find alternative "EX D" series of Sigma lenses or Tokina "AT-X D" category, they are quite good and maybe not so expensive as Minolta's professional AF "G" or Apo lenses. As last ones are not beeing produced, they are harder to find on second market and their price had grown up a lot. Lucky who has them and who keeps them!

 

Examples :

 

17 - 35mm f/3,5 AF G dated in 1997 ; 28 - 70mm f/ 2,8 AF G dated in 1993 or the "D" series dated in 2004 ; 100mm f/2,8 macro "D" dated in 2000 ; 17 - 35mm f/2,8 - 4 "D" dated in 2004

[weatherman]

Well, Current Sony SLR is continuation of Dynax 5D as far as I know and most lenses to be released as well are good old minolta AF. That is what I meant when I said i'll stick to Minolta (heritage AND future as Sony). Of course I am aware that Sony is a different company but they are not reinventing the wheel are they? Having same lens mount is good enough to use my existing lenses. I'm no pro to care too much about this subject anyway. Pros might want to switch(already did probably), I understand that.

[peterblaise]

.

 

Earlier: "... The lack of adequate supplies of lenses and lack of product support is not acceptable ..."

 

I presume (because no one has said, specifically) that such comments are born of casual overview of new and used mass market display advertising from camera and electronic stores, right?

 

Has ANYONE actually inquired and reported back on actual availability, especially SONY DIRECT?

 

I have, concerning product support, see

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00HEkO

 

... and I find Sony to be more obtuse and less available than Minolta was, but in the end, the repair was quicker and more effective than my experience with Minolta. In short, Minolta was nice and friendly, but Sony actually fixed that dang thing!

 

Now, regarding lens availability on the open market, yes, in the transition and rebirth of the Minolta Alpha-mount, used stocks and even new stock of Minolta and Konica Minolta (no hyphem, but, yes, a space) labeled gear "dried up" (that is, were sold to Minolta Alpha-mount photographers who may at theis very moment out using them happily!). Other makers have supply shortages, also (has anyone actually SEEN a Nikon 18-200 VR?). Are we responding to mere supposition and not actulal reality?

 

Earlier: " ... Anyway, Peter Henry, have you gone DIRECTLY to Sony?

 

http://www.sonystyle.com/

 

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?CategoryName=dcc_DIDigitalCameras_style_dslr&ProductSKU=DSLRA100K&TabName=acc&var2=

 

... let us know what you find when ordering DIRECTLY from Sony (free shipping!) -- maybe you'll tell us they really do have loads of lenses but you just don't have loads of cash? :-( Me neither! ..."

 

Why don't we either (a) check ANY stores for available IN-STOCK Alpha-mount lenses ourselves and report back here, or (b) wait for Peter Henry or others here to do that for us?

 

==

 

Note: This constant carping at each other is so inappropriate for fellow photo.net photographers. Our dialogs of our photo experiences are precious and I believe it's inappropriate for ANYONE to edit our writing as if THAT intellectual property (our WRITING) is somehow more disrespectable than, say, our PHOTOGRAPHS?!? No one here would tolerate a moderator cutting up our photographs to remove our copyright or signature or other content WE dained appropriate in our own choice of a presentation to our fellow photo.netters. May I suggest that we stop commenting on each other's WRITEN presentation style here as if it were fair game and up for deletion on some criteria, and instead respect each other's right and freedom to present writing AND photos of our own choice and control and artistic whimsy. For instance, in the atached photos of some of my Minolta lenses, someone could say, "I don't like the space between the lenses, yada, yada, it should be deleted ... if only there were a moderator." Instead, why not just share your own photos of your own gear showing how YOU like to do it, and let us BOTH contribute in support of each other, not as some race to win exclusive rights to decide who can share what?<div></div>

[ed_rice]

Peter wrote-

 

"May I suggest that we stop commenting on each other's WRITEN presentation style here as if it were fair game and up for deletion on some criteria, and instead respect each other's right and freedom to present writing AND photos of our own choice and control and artistic whimsy. For instance, in the atached photos of some of my Minolta lenses, someone could say, "I don't like the space between the lenses, yada, yada, it should be deleted ... if only there were a moderator." Instead, why not just share your own photos of your own gear showing how YOU like to do it, and let us BOTH contribute in support of each other, not as some race to win exclusive rights to decide who can share what?"

 

--------------

 

HEAR! HEAR!

 

And I love the photos of your equipment. They are classic, classic, in the their layout, and I love the contrast, and the spacing is superb. Makes me want to root through it all, putting it back as I found it, of course. Just curious as to what's on the post-its (if that's what they are)

 

Seriously, it resembles my own collection, some of which is on ebay right now just so I can buy new pretties. I'm rather odd in ways, in that if I have a good specimen of a highly desireable or collectible lens, I won't use it for fear of inflicting some sort of grief upon it, so I'm selling stuff I rarely use that sits on a shelf like a kind of trophy, which I suppose it really is in ways. But some are duplicates too.

 

Anyway, the black and white lens assortments and the sun made this thread worth it. Thanks!

 

Ed

[robert_paul1]

PBM, the Sony Direct site shows that they have 16 out of 19 lenses available for purchase. However, no other retailer seems to have more than 3 lenses available. Perhaps, Sony is trying to make people looking for SONY glass, buy directly from them, as they make more money (profits) as they don't have to discount the lens to a reseller, like B&H or Ritz.

 

As for your pictures of your old Minolta lenses, it appears that once again you have 'hijacked' the question and put something that isn't relevant to Peter Henry's original question. Is it possible for you to stick to answering the question and not inject non-relevant material?

 

I wish this forum actually had a moderator who would remove such O/T items.

[craig_gillette]

Peter H. is right to be somewhat unhappy. Sony did not takeover a properly functioning company and the product lines were dead or dieing all around before Sony got there. Changing at the top on a running business means the biggest problems are getting the letterhead corrected and the new logos on product.

 

So this wasn't simply new ownership. KM was already gasping for breath. (Remember, at first, they were to be somewhat parallel, two companies, one mount.) Lens availability was marginal for some, non-existent for many if not most. Recognition and recovery and "fix" of the flash issues wasn't happening and wasn't snuck away in a drawer waiting to be implemented on the next product run. The SSM lenses weren't stacking up waiting to be silk-screened. There is/was no follow-on to the 7D or a new 9D type.

 

Sony will need to "fix" the post entry-level system worries by shipping advanced product soon (cameras, lenses and flashes, etc.) or they'll be able to concentrate on the electronics and discount stores were the big problem is spelling "dslr." Like it or not, they inherited a rapidly dwindling customer base.

[peter_henry1]

Boy did I set the cat among the pidgeons! Anyway, I have a confession to make. As someone suggested I was looking in the wrong place. I have now looked at the Sony New Zealand site and found quite a few (16 in total) lenses available from Sony. Some of them at very high prices eg Sony Gold Single Focal Length 35mm / F1.4 Alpha. NZ$3500

I had been looking at places like B&H, Adorama, and KEH, where the supply just seems to have dried up. I especially noticed there are very few new Tokina lenses available for the Maxxum range, especially ATX Pro type. I suspect that one of the previous writers is correct; that Sony are not making their lenses available to B&H and others at discounted prices. I do not have time to answer all the responses to my original post, but, no I have not tried Canon, so I do not know if I would like the feel and functionality of Canon. In my OP I did say that I was willing to give Sony a chance, and that is what I will do. I would like to see what bodies they release as professional/semi-pro and whether they release a vertical grip.

[craig_gillette]

The Sonystyle site for the US lists fewer and even fewer of them are actually available. Some are indicated as should ship 10/20 or before, some don't have a ship date and some indicate pre-orders, either have begun or would begin.

[pmacinseattle]

I've just placed my order with BH for my A100 and I had a long hard think about it and swayed towards the Nikon D80 several times.

 

I thought long and hard about the future of Sony and their commitment to the DSLR in the future and eventually I decided the following:

 

1. In all the time I can remember, I have never seen Sony walk away from a market it has chosen to enter. As a huge corporation it has sometimes struggled to be as nimble as its competitors (witness the new walkman) but even there it has stuck it out and just kept plugging away.

 

2. As a brand Sony cant afford to remain mediocre. The core message of the Sony brand is that it is a "premium" brand (within the mainstream consumer electronics). Having entered the DSLR market Sony must contest the big makes to maintain brand integrity.

 

3. Right now there is "enough" to keep me happy.

 

4. My experience at trying to rapidly develop product you've inherited has shown me that its really really hard and that it never goes to plan, therefore I wasnt stressed by the delays in the program now.

 

So I've paid my money and am now just waiting for the mail. I'll know if my assessment of the situation was right in a few years I suppose.

[robert_paul1]

Peter Mc Convill, do you currently own any Sony/KM lenses or are you starting from scratch?

[pmacinseattle]

Robert Paul - on whether I was coming into this with a Sony/KM background...

 

No, this will be my first SLR (not counting a 1959 Pentax H2 that my wife bought second hand in 1970 as a student and my Canonet 25 rangefinder - not strictly an SLR I know - that I picked up at a flea market). So before my decision to buy the Sony I had no investment in any system to sway me.

 

Curiously I finally made the decision to buy the Sony about 6 weeks ago (though I reviewed it after a mate bought a D80 and I got a play) but I've been buying lenses for it over the last month in preparation. As a result I've picked up a 70-210 f4 (beercan) and 28-135 f4-4.5 cheap as opportunities arose. While a little backwards, not actually having the camera when buying the lenses took all the time pressure off me and put me in a good position to buy what I wanted/needed in a more thoughful manner.

[peterblaise]

.

 

Earlier "... [regarding the pictures of all the lenses] Just curious as to what's on the post-its ..."

 

I write BIG the focal length and aperture, and in small the other salient details - auto or manual focus, filter size, mount differentiation, marque and so on - so at a glance I can know which lens I am grabbing, and so I can re-file them in their sequential cubby holes. I use clear book binding tape to attach the label to the top of each case / bag so I can read the label on the shelf or in a suitcase or wherever. The lenses are just tools, and I want them to be as easily identifiable and accessible as possible on demand when I need them for a particular purpose.

 

How do other people store and identify their photographic tool resources? Pictures?

 

-- Peter Blaise, Minolta Photographer by choice, and now a Konica Minolta Sony Photographer by default<div></div>