spud Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I just had 12 6x7cm trannys sent back to me from a high quality commercial printer that had made drum scans of them. Much to my shock, I found that 4 of the images were damaged. Not because they flew off the drum, but because the colour had completely shifted on the originals. These 4 seem to have lost all of their yellow content and now contain a heavy reddish cast to them. I pulled my bracketed shots out for comparison and they look completely different. Here's the deal: 2 of the shots were on Kodak Ektachrome 100 2 of the shots were on Fuji Velvia 2 of the shots were taken on the same day on the same roll (Kodak)The other two were on two separate rolls shot months apart The bracketed shots were taken on the exact same film as the respective originals and obviously at the same time. The proofs from the scans illustrate the colour shift, but in comparing the proofs to the originals, it seems that the colour has shifted even further on the originals. Has anyone run into this type of damage from drum scanning before? Any ideas what may have caused it? This printer does tens of thousands of scans each year and they have never seen anything like this. Needless to say, its put a really bad taste in my mouth about commercial scanning. One of the images that was toasted was, in my opinion, the best work I'd ever done. Looking for your wisdom.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 <img src="http://members.rogers.com/moochapman/Original.jpg"><td align=center valign=center colspan=7>Before<img src="http://members.rogers.com/moochapman/screwed.jpg">After<p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Could it be that the film was processed poorly, and the intense light fromthe scanner simply accellerated the deterioration? I've had a zillion trannies using different films scanned for commercial work, and never experienced what you did. Hmmm...Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 I thought about poor processing as well, but these 4 images were processed at two different pro labs at 3 different times. In looking at the odds of how these guys could all make the same degenerative processing mistake at three different times...seems a bit of a stretch... Very wierd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorin Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 It is my understanding that trannies are oil mounted for drum scan. If that is the case it stands to reason that something was wrong with that oil (or with chemical they used to clean the oil). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 I was thinking about that too - perhaps some contamination or the like. But then again, 8 other trannies were done at the same time, without incident... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david b Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 So, who were/are the pro labs??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal_bissinger Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 </b> Maybe we're jumping to the wrong conclusion here. Could it be that they may have been inadvertently exposed to high heat outside of their being scanned? Would that be a possibility? Maybe at the lab that scanned them? It would have to have happened before they were scanned as you say the proofs indicate the shift. I don't think that the scanning process could do that and oil wouldn't do that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal_bissinger Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 </strong> Enough of the bold already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_may Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Spud, Sorry, I have nothing to help with your problem; just had to say your name caught my attention, looked up your photonet profile - it was hilarious, and you website is outrageous. To those of you checking in, you need to see his stuff, it will brighten your day. (will spud ever make it to Idaho?) Good luck with the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 Two labs in Toronto: Henry's Pro E-6 labAccent Photo & Imaging I'm quite familiar with the place that's done the scanning and I don't know of any areas with excessively high heat. The area is completely climate controlled. Plus, it would appear that the originals have shifted even further than after the scanning. When I look at the proofs now, they are better than the originals as they stand now. Thanks for the kudos Tom, but Spud is not overly happy today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-p-j Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Herein may lie your answer: Transparencies and film for scanning on a "drum scanner" should never be mounted with oil. The proper stuff to use--although more expensive--is "Kami Fluid Wet Mount" and after scanning the fillm should be cleaned with PEC-12 archival film cleaner. Don't send your scans to a place which uses oil as a mounting medium. Now you know just about all I know about mounting drum scans, but I think it is enough to convey the idea that the reason people who do my scanning say,in essence, "If you want it mounted with oil, go someplace else. We don't want the responsbility." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_c._miller Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Spud, why don't you ask Kodak and Fuji about this? They must know what would cause this to happen. Also, find a top-flight lab, and ask them about creating a 4x5 tranny from a digital restoration of your slides. I think that Photobition (formerly Ivey Seright) here in Seattle can do it for you. (http://www.photobitionsea.com/) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted January 25, 2003 Author Share Posted January 25, 2003 I'll be talking with the Fuji and Kodak guys on Monday. They are both coming to have a look. My experience with Kodak in the past though is that they are notorious for pointing blame at others. I just want to figure out what the real true cause was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud Posted January 25, 2003 Author Share Posted January 25, 2003 To try and salvage things, I've pretty well resolved that the trannys can't be brought back. Fortunately, I have 245 MB files of each image from their scan. Next week we're going the route to try and colour correct them with LAB (not RGB or CMYK) and then send the files to a local top-flight lab to have 8x10 trannys made (well, proportionally full images on 8 x 10 film). It won't be originals, but will be extremely high quality dupes. Small salvage I know. Just out of curiosity, you guys have any claims experience with this? I'd like to hear what came of it and how you went about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_ludwick Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Sorry to see the damage to your trannys. I have previously worked as a prepress manager for years and I have never seen this kind of damage before. I can only guess as to what caused it. An inexperiened scanner opertor may have left your chromes in film cleaner for an extended period of time. That is of little consolation now. To get the proper color balance back to your scans, try Applied Science Fiction - Digital ROC filter. There is a free demo available. www.asf.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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