mike_simons Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Hi, Folks... After getting resounding feedback in another thread, I've moved here for a new question. I'm the digital photography teacher at a school in upstate NY. We use two Canon D30's for all of our photos, and we operate as a subset of the Yearbook program (Sept-March = Yearbook production, Mar-June = studio photography & other topics). We recently picked up a 50mm 1.4 USM (after shooting on the stock 28-90mm from Canon) and are loving the results, particularly when it comes to our ability to stop action in our Gym (basketball, wrestling, etc) when conditions are particularly low-lit. The low f-stop is IDEAL, but the focal length is more of a problem.... Ideally, we'd use something in a 100-200mm range to be able to reach across the Gym and bring action we're not close to right in front of us... The 200mm 2.8 is out of our price range, but I'm wondering about the feasibility of purchasing a 2X EF II Teleconverter, which would bring us to 160mm (and drop us two f-stops). I know, 50 x 2 = 100, but you need to factor in the 1.6 D30 CMOS multiplier.... thus, effective focal length is 160mm. If that's enough information for you, what suggestions might you have on a direction to pursue? I'd LOVE to find a place that'd give us a break on a nice low f-stop 200mm lens, but I don't think many places (or people with used ones) will smile on a school program, unfortunately. How much - if anything - will we sacrifice in image quality? I've not used teleconverters before, and don't know of possible side-effects..... Are there other options I should consider, including but not limited to third-party 200mm / 2.8 (or thereabouts) lenses? ANY suggestions, hints, tips, or advice is much appreciated! Cheers,Mike Simonsmcsimons@alumni.indiana.edu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchlight Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Hi Mike I taught high school newspaper journalism for 27 years, and am amazed you have enough free time to post to this forum. The 2X TC will cost you two f-stops, degrade your images, and render any lens too slow to freeze indoor action. If you need more reach at reasonable cost, consider the Canon EF 100mm f2. It's sharp, fast, and affordable, especially used. The Canon EF 85mm f1.8 is great, too. With the 1.6X effect, both lenses combine speed and reach nicely. Another suggestion is to get a local pro sports shooter to come into your class and explain how he/she covers the sports you want to shoot. Even better if the pro will come to one of your school's games and do a shoot with you and a few of your students, then compare and critique results together. I learned almost everything I know from local pros, who are remarkably generous with their time when it's for students. Often, being in the right spot on the sidelines or endlines with a shorter lens is better than having long glass. I'm sure you know that shooting from the stands is futile). Having the patience to wait for the action to come close is essential; then fill the frame with the telling moment. You've got the best job in education! Have fun with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_simons Posted February 5, 2003 Author Share Posted February 5, 2003 Brent - Many thanks for your reply!!! I looked further on the 'Net and found (sadly) that the 2x TC conversation was moot to begin with: the 2x EF is only compatible with 135mm tele's or higher!! Don't know why that is, but...... I appreciate the rest of your suggestions - I've been finding more and more that I should be willing to shelve a bit of ego and re-affirm that I *don't* have all the answers for my kids and our needs... I've had the opportunity to go back and forth with a few pros here (one studio-based and one who does more field work) who're more than willing to talk with us. I'm looking forward to the opportunity! As far as use of time goes, I teach English in the Special Ed. department, plus an elective course of B&W Photo for our kids with special needs.... The Yearbook Photo is my 6th teaching period, and in the fall, I'm an asst. director with the marching band.... and you're right - I have the best job in educ.... THE WORLD! -Mike PS - If anyone out there wants to off-load a 100mm 2.0 EF or similar to a group of OUTSTANDING kids in upstate NY, I'll take all offers! Our budget is $0.00, but we're willing to talk! Again, many thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catchlight Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 I meant to add that the Canon TC's only fit on "L" (pro) tele zooms and prime lenses that are 135mm and longer. Third party TC's will fit "consumer" lenses, but are generally of poor quality, and render your lens too slow for your purposes.<p> I shoot with a D30, too, and note that the faster the lens, the quicker autofocus works. (You might notice the difference between your 50mm and your zoom). I shoot action mainly with a 50mm f1.4 like yours, an 85mm f1.8, and a 135mm f2L. Here's a sample of <a href="http://www.rainbowtheatre.com/images/lesmis/lesmis_casta/lesmis.html">low-light, no-flash theatrical shooting</a>.<p> http://www.rainbowtheatre.com/images/lesmis/lesmis_casta/lesmis.html<p> Refreshing the autofocus between shots as the action moves around (shutter button halfway down) shortens AF time when you shoot, too.<p> Excuse my rambling on, but I loved my job before I semi-retired, and miss it at times, especially the late-night and weekend deadline marathons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canon man Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 I have become completely irrate with the fact that schools all over the states are having to creatively find solutions to programs that are not considered by some to be important enough to fund. Here in Oregon most of our school sports programs are now sponsored by private local businesses. Atleast those of us not in Portland or Salem's surrounding area.If anyone wonders why I don't vote for the increase in taxes to fund these programs anymore it is because I voted in the past for them just to see the smaller communties not get anything out of it. The Arts programs have failed due to the communtiies unwillingness to help keep them afloat. Here in CottageGrove Oregon the Photography program was completely abandoned some years ago.If I am not mistaken, even "Art class" is no longer offered. I could suggest going to local businesses and ask if they would be willing to donate or help take collections for the school's photgraphy program. I imagine that even chemistry, and paper can be scarce at times. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canon man Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Sorry for the second post here, but I was reminded by a project my wife had in mind. This consists of trying to find some exceptional Art, and Photography students in college(she majors in business and I in Photography) who would be willing to help by teaching these programs in school as a part of workstudy. The problem would be finding how to get the supplies needed to maintain the programs. We still have it in the list of things that would be nice to do, but who knows, maybe we can get something happening. I could just as easily teach highschool students exposure, and technique in the camerqa and darkroom as well as I help the beginning college students. I guess it is just a matter of community support, and how many can pass background checks.Ehhhh, ahhhh and how many would be willing to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_t1 Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Hey Mike, sorry to go off topic a bit, but I was curious of how you got the D30's for your program. If they were budgeted by the schoolboard/fundraisers/donated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakim_peled1 Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Have you considered the 135/2.8 SF ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_smith15 Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Hi MikeIf you do get an L series lens or a 135mm or above prime consider the EF 1.4xmk2I own both extenders and the ef1.4x produces excellent results.I rarely take mine of my 70-200 f2.8L as its hard to pick the difference. The 2x however I use only when I have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gil_batzri Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Hi Mike, I am shooting Prep sports with a D30 and various lenses. you might look at getting a 80-200 2.8L AFD Lens, I just got one for a decent price. They can be had for $500 or so. HOWEVER, I think you would be better off spending money on a 550EX flash for shooting in the gym. I have found that actually shooting in highschool gyms, even 2.8 isn't large enough to shoot without lighting aid of some sort (same problems on the fields at schools) Unless your gym is very well lit. I know the money aspect is really tough, have you talked to Canon directly about a grant or something? feel free to email me if you want to talk aside from this forum. Gil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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