Question on Nikon 869GR carrier

[ben_grisso]

<p>Hi Everyone,<br>

I have been trying to get full frame scans of my 6x6 B+W negs for a while now. I am shooting with a Rollei Integral 2 and the negative size (56mm) seems larger than most other 6x6 brands, so I am having a harder time than most. I have purchased a Nikon 9000 and modified the 869S carrier by removing the grips, grinding out 1mm of the plastic, and putting focal point glass in. This has allowed me to get full frame for the 1st time, it appears the max size the sensor can scan is 57mm, so I have about half a mm on each side, the position has to be VERY precise.<br>

Although this modified carrier works, it's very finicky and slow. I'm trying to come up with a better option. I just purchased an 869G carrier in the hopes this would be more user friendly, sadly the stock carrier opening is 56mm so I would need to remove both pieces of glass and grind out both pieces of plastic, not sure I want to go through all that.<br>

My last thought is regarding the 869GR. Somone that has this carrier, can you please tell me:<br>

<br />1) what is the max size opening (ie if you put in on a light table, the size of the opening the light comes through). I asked this same question of the person selling the 869G on ebay and they told me 57mm. In reality that is more the physical size of the opening, rather than the size that light can pass through,which is 56mm. That extra 1mm makes all the difference in the world to me. I am hoping the stock 869GR might have a larger opening compared the 869G.<br>

<br />2) what is the size of the 6x6 mask which must be used with the 869GR, and assuming it is smaller than my negatives (56mm) does it look like it could be enlarged to 57mm opening and still keep it's structural integrity as one piece?</p>

<p>3) can you place a strip of 3 6x6 frames in the 869GR, and if so, can you scan the middle frame? Or can you only scan a strip with 2 6x6 frames? Most of my negs are in strips of 3 and I would hate to cut them all into 2's and 1's.<br>

<br />4) my 869G carrier did not come with masks. Does anyone have suggestions for something that can be used to replace the stock mask material? I was thinking maybe black post-its, or black construction paper, etc?</p>

<p>any info much appreciated.<br>

thx<br>

Ben</p>

[User_1577653]

<p>An interesting "feature" of the 9000 scanner is that the maximum scan width you can achieve actually varies with the holder. The system first determines which holder has been inserted via a pattern of square holes near the front of the holder, and then sets the maximum width that it will allow based on the maximum it thinks is needed for that holder. In the case of the 869GR (rotating glass) holder the scanner also reads an additional set of holes in the mask, which it uses to further fine tune what it thinks the widest should be. The widest scan which can be performed occurs with the 869GR holder and the 6x9 mask (the max. width is reduced when using any other of the masks). According to my notes that maximum value is 63.481mm, which I think corresponds to imaging with the full width of the sensor - i.e., it allows a full 4000 pixel-wide scan. As far as I know, no other holder allows this full width, but I'm sure someone will tell me if that's not the case.</p>

<p>That maximum width is sufficient for any image on 120 film since it is actually wider than the film itself. However, the width of film actually recorded in the scan may still be limited either by the 6x9 mask itself or the physical opening in the holder. I <em>think</em> it is still generous enough for the image sizes you’re talking about, but unfortunately I no longer own the 869GR so I don't have a way to measure it. Hopefully someone who owns one will step up and make that measurement for you. But one thing I can add is that if the 6x9 mask itself is still too limiting, you could certainly cut your own mask. Just make sure you make the hole code pattern match that of Nikon’s 6x9 mask. Technically I’m not sure you really even need the mask per se; you may be able to just apply strips of opaque tape over the empty hole area where the mask code is read, in a way that duplicates the correct pattern of holes.</p>

<p>Finally, I can suggest one other possibility for you. Since it is the hole pattern which ultimately determine how wide the system can scan, you can trick the scanner into thinking you have the 869GR holder and 6x9 mask by modifying one of the other holders so that it shows the same hole pattern. Of course you may still need do some filing or grinding to increase the physical width of the opening, and I'm not necessarily saying that cutting square holes in the plastic is an easy job, but considering how expense and generally difficult to find the 869GR holder can be, it may be worth it to you. I've done such a modification myself and can tell you that it works. In my case it was because I wanted to create a holder that could scan 116/616 film, which has a width of 63.5mm with images being up to ~62.5mm wide. I actually ended up purchasing and chopping up a spare 35mm holder for this purpose rather than one of my standard medium format holder 869S, since I wanted to maintain that one for 120 scanning.</p>

[ben_grisso]

<p>thanks for the feedback Jeff. What you are suggesting is basically in alignment with my own experience and understanding. One thing to keep in mind is that I am concerned not only about the "width" as you use the term in your post, but also the "height". I believed the max sensor height is 57mm, and I rely on your testing for the max width, I have not experimented with this.<br>

I agree the 869GR gives me the mostly likely solution with the least amount of work. I have already modified the 869S and achieved full frame, but the solution is finicky and slow to use, so I need something easier and faster. I think I could modify the 869G, but this seems like a pain, so I'm hoping to get the 869GR and simply modify the mask itself, which should be far easier than messing with the plastic and glass.<br>

Anyhow, I need to purchase the 869GR, and test it, will post results back here when I am at that point.<br>

thx<br>

Ben</p>

[User_1577653]

<p>Just to clarify, by 'width' I am referring to the dimension <em>across</em> the roll of film. It is the dimension parallel to the sensor, and perpendicular to the direction the carrier moves in and out. For a quick mental picture you might also say that it represents the short side of a 6x9 image. I <em>think</em> this is the dimension you meant, but now I'm not entirely sure!</p>

<p>But to answer the obvious next question, in the other dimension I found that the scanner can record a maximum length of about 88mm in a single scan. That number is based on the 869GR holder and 6x9 mask, but I don't recall if it changed when using other masks or when using the other medium format holders.</p>

<p>In any event, good luck with all this. I think you will really like the rotating glass holder.</p>

<p>Jeff</p>

[ben_grisso]

<p>just to close the loop on this, for anyone else in a similar situation, the 869GR DOES allow for full frame scans of 6x6 film, including mine which is on the larger side. As Jeff indicates above you can just make your own mask, mimicking the hole pattern of the stock 6x6 mask, and the capture area is more than sufficient to get black on all four sides. Works like a charm, very little fuss. Of course it means you are scanning one frame at a time, not strips, so not good for volume work, but if you need full frame, it's better than what I was doing before where I modified the 869S carrier with glass and used that (it did work, but very finicky to position and tons of rescans due to the film shifting in the carrier).</p>