Beginning photographer--Nikon N65 or N80, lenses

[lisa_ubnoske]

My question is this--I have a pentax point and shoot but would like

to purchase an SLR--I have narrowed the search between the Nikon N65

and the N80. My friend says I should go ahead and get the N80 as I

will want to upgrade later. I will mainly be taking family pictures,

vacation shots, etc. I do a lot of scrapbooking and want good

quality prints--also pictures that I could hang on my walls. This

would be my first SLR. My other question is what are some basic good

lenses that I should start out with--I don't plan on buying the ones

that come with the camera. Thanks, Lulu

[jim schwaiger]

Sounds to me like you'd be better off with the N65. It has several automatic modes like "Portrait" "Landscape" and "Action" where the camera makes all the decisions for you. It even has an "Auto" mode that makes it just like a P&S camera. It can also work in fully manual mode if you want to control the exposure and focus.

 

The N80 has a couple of extras, but will feel a lot more intimidating to a P&S user. The "Program" mode is the closest thing to an automatic mode, but you will have to understand a little about aperture and shutter speeds to use it effectively.

 

The Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 AF-D is a superb starter lens that is fast and cheap ($100). I also own a 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 AF-D that is great for general use. The 28mm is great for landscapes and the 105mm end is perfect for portraits. It also has a macro option that lets you focus as close as an inch or two from the lens. Avoiding the kit lenses is a good idea, they are usually slower and softer than other reasonably priced zooms.

 

The other key ingredients are film type and where you get it processed. Slower negative films work great out in the bright sunshine and look better at large print sizes. I use 100 and 160 speed film most of the time in the great outdoors. You start seeing grain with 800 and 1600 speed films when enlarged, so use them sparingly unless you want the grainy look.

 

Different labs can give very different results, so try a few local labs and see which ones do the best job. Pro labs usually do very good work, but I have found a local 1-hour lab that is reasonable and does great work, especially for snapshots and such. If a roll of film has lots of precious photos, consider the more expensive pro labs. Having a good shot ruined by the cheapo lab scratching the film can be devastating.

[daryl]

Lisa, I think you should check the discussion archives around photo.net beacuse there is a wealth of information here from very informed, very skilled, and very patient people. You would do well to check out some of the other discussions, as well as the <a href="http://www.photo.net/nikon/n80">Nikon N80 review</a>. <P>

As for some lens recommendations, I'm going to suggest that you start with a 50mm prime. It is definitely one of the sharpest lenses available and will serve well for low light shooting. You might also want to consider a mid-range zoom for the sake of versatility (e.g. 24-85, 24-120, 28-105, etc.). Once you've had sufficient time towork with this you should have a pretty good idea of the type of photography you enjoy most. Your next lens choice will be based on this and should be fairly obvious.<P>

Best of luck. The F80 is an excellent choice, It represents a great value and opens up the entire range of Nikon gear.

[nicholas_fiduccia]

Lisa,

 

Go with the N80. I think the N65 is crippled like the inablity

to override the film speed. The 50mm mm 1.8 would be

an excellent lens to start with. Enjoy!

 

Nick

[casimir_artmann]

I think that F65 with 28-105 will give you most value for your money. When you have learned to use the zoom, try a 50/1.8 prime. A tripod would also be good to have for outdoor photos.

 

It's better to spend money on good lenses if you want pictures on your walls.

[neil_lupin]

your friend is right - you should always buy the best body you can afford. If you want to get creative you will find the F65 quickly limiting. I chose the F80 as my first SLR too, adn I can't see myself trading up for years yet, and I've taken it all over the world. By the way, why not buy the lenses if comes with? Usually a 28-80 (or 28-105) and a 70-300 G lens combination. They are perfectly good to get started with - unless of course you'd prefer the Nikkor D type lenses (although you'll not notice a huge difference. Otherwise, what about the Sigma EX range of lenses - faster (constant f/2.8) apertures and much more solid build quality, but all this comes at a price. In short, I'd get a package deal with the F80 and a couple of G lenses in a bundle. Also make sure you do buy the MB16 battery pack - try in on the body in the shop and see if you like the difference of the extra bulk.

[angel_o.]

Try to go with the N80 and a Nikkor AF50/1.8D! <br><br>

 

Why? <br> <br>

 

Because of:<br><br>

 

- the Nikkor 50/1.8 is the sharpest and cheapest Nikkor lens you can buy<br><br>

 

- the N80 uses a cheap cable-release vs an expensive remote<br><br>

 

- better matrix metering chip (10 segments vs 6 segments) and improved metering software

<br><br>

- 3D flash metering vs normal matrix metering<br><br>

 

- 1/125s flash sync vs 1/90s

<br><br>

- very good ergonomics(e.g. two dials: one for aperture and one for shutter speed vs press button/dial combination)<br><br>

 

- ISO setting override, the N65 defaults to ISO 100 if you tape the DX-coding (with older cameras like the N50 this was the way to go, no chance with the N65)<br><br>

 

- no silly programs that serve for nothing, you have just what you need (a full auto-program mode, aperture priority, shutter-priority and manual)<br><br>

<br>

 

In any case, you have to play around in a good store with both models and with the desired lens (try it with heavier lenses too, you'll never know) and take the one that fits your ergonomics best. It doesn't make sense to buy a camera that is a pain to hold. You are not going to use it if your wrist hurts after 5 seconds (that was for me, besides of the tech.-specs, the main reason to go for the F80 and not for the F65; though, the F100 fitted better my hand and the F5 much better but... ;-) ).

[casimir_artmann]

Yes, I would agree that F80 is a better camera than F65. The question is if difference in price can be justified. If you want to take both family pictures, vacations shots etc, just a single 50 mm prime would not be enough. F80 with 50/1.8 will cost approx as much as F65 with 28-105/3-5-4.5. In either case, do not buy a new lens until you have master your current equipment.

 

An F65 could serve as an extra body if upgrading to a later model, eventually digital.

 

Regards Casi

[ShunCheung]

What is your overall budget? That dictates a lot of things.

 

I would start with a zoom lens, something in the 24/28 to 85/105 range. Opinions differ, but IMO the 50mm is the least useful lens. I bought one along with my first SLR some 30 years ago and never bought another one again. Meanwhile, zooms have improved a lot in the last decade or two. If you don't want zooms, a 35mm or even a 28mm is much better for small group shots, travel, etc.

[jim schwaiger]

Lisa, to clear up a few things above. I have used both cameras and still think the N65 can be "better" for some people.

 

The N65 and N80 support all the Nikon AutoFocus lenses. The N80 can use some manual focus lenses as well, but in a limited way. If you want AutoFocus, there is no difference.

 

Film has DX encoding that both the N65 and N80 use to set the film speed by default. You'll probably never see film that isn't DX encoded, so it's really not an issue. Some guys fake the ISO to apply a little over/underexposure to the film. With the N65, you can do the exact same thing with exposure compensation for an entire roll of film, it's the same rose, different name (and easier to do with the N65).

 

The glass is more important than the body. A cheap body with great glass will do better than a great body with cheap glass every time. And you can upgrade bodies if you feel the need for more options.

 

The N65 remote is about $15, which may be more than a cable release, but certainly isn't expensive relative to the cameras and bodies. I like the remote and use it often for family pictures (it is easy to use from a distance).

 

The N65 metering is very good, the N80's is better, but not enough to make a difference in most situations. In well lighted conditions, my meter has never failed me. The N80's flash controls are better as well, but the N65 does just fine with both internal and external flash.

 

The 2-dial issue is only an issue in manual mode and not much of one even then. After using the N65, the N80 is not intuitive, but I imagine both take a little getting used to. The pro cameras have 2 dials, so the pros hate the N65 for that reason alone.

 

The "silly" settings are quite useful to the beginner. They allow them to tell the camera what they are shooting and the camera will respond appropriately. It gives normal people an understandable interface so they can use the camera without studying f-stops and apertures. They are e also useful when handing the camera to a friend.

[angel_o.]

I don't know what is not intuitive about the N80.

<br><br>

Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea of Nikon trying to make photography easier for beginners and amateurs, but in my opinion the programs of the N65 are useless for the following reasons:

<br><br>

<b>Landscape: </b>The program is intended for use with wide angles and tries to close the aperture as much as possible holding the shutter speed to at least 1/60s. If you're focussing to infinity it might be better to have a faster speed and e.g. f/8. P-mode or A-mode are sufficient here.

<br><br>

<b>Portrait:</b> It's inteded for use with a tele. The Program keeps the maximum aperture of the lens open (max. f/2). With a good tele one eye or the nose might be out of focus! What's wrong using here A-Mode?

<br><br>

<b>Close-up:</b> The camera holds a minimum aperture of f/5.6. Making close-ups you'll need DOF. With 100mm lens at a distance of 0,5 m you get with an aperture of f/5.6 a DOF of 5mm, so you need f/11 or f/16 at least. A-Mode is your friend here, again...

<br><br>

<b>Sports-program:</b> The camera tries to keep up with 1/500s speed, it's okay - nothing to complain.

<br><br>

<b>Siloutte-Program:</b> The camera chooses about -2 EV of the required exposure. This might result in badly underexposed slides. The operator has to know what the camera should do and if he knows he doesn't need this program...

<br><br>

<b>Nightprogram:</b> What is the sense of using a max. aperture of f/5.6 if you own a 1.8 lens? This program is not useful for available light with a fast lens. Here again, A-mode or S-mode are your friends...

<br><br>

<b>Panning-program:</b> With a focal lenght of 85mm the camera uses 1/60s speed with longer lenses 1/250s. With longer lenses, foreground and background will be sharp - no panning-effect at all. S-mode is your friend here.<br><br>

 

Sure, the programs might be useful-looking features in the beginning, but after a few days you already know what they do or not. So you can easily skip them with A-mode, S-Mode, M-Mode and even P-mode with program-shift. <br><br>

The best thing you can do, is buying a good photography book and do some research on this site. Otherwise, if you just want your camera do the "thinking", a digital P&S might be worth looking.

[jim schwaiger]

Angel,

 

My comment was that after using the N65, the N80 wasn't intuitive. I was constantly turning the wrong dial on the N80. Like I said, you have to get used to either one. If Lisa was used to a pro body, I would not recommend the N65 for that reason.

 

Obviously the N65 has to make some assumptions in the Vari-Program modes and in general they are decent assumptions. In general, landscapes look best with a large DOF, portraits look best with a narrow DOF, etc. It also assumes that most N65 owners aren't going to start with a $2000 fast-telephoto lens. A 50mm prime, wide to tele zoom, and a 70-300mm are much more likely for N65 owners.

 

Don't get me wrong, I wanted to learn everyhting about exposure, aperture, etc. and I watched the settings for each mode carefully. It didn't take me long to realize that these modes were not always using the optimal settings. At the same time, I don't hesitate to use those modes when I hand the camera to someone else.

 

Certainly the P,A,S,M modes are more versatile for someone who understands aperture and shutter speeds, but there are times when you don't want to think about them, you just want to take a picture. The N65 is simply easier to use in those situations.

 

So, if you want a simple SLR that you intend to use as a point & shoot often, I'd recommend the N65. On the other hand, if you intend to take it more serious and don't mind climbing a learning curve, the N80 is indeed a slightly more capable camera.