Which Rolleiflex TLR camera to buy? 3.5E/3.5f ? Planar/Xenotar?

[rj_banks]

I am just beginning medium format work and have been looking at

Rolleiflex...I mainly shoot B & W still life, street photography and

industrial scenes. I have found several Rolleiflex models and am not

quite sure which to purchase. Here are a few I have norrowed it down

to:

 

3.5 e w/ planar for $480

3.5 e2 w/ xenotar for $570

3.5 f w/ xenotar for $580

3.5 f w/ planar for $575

* all lenses/bodies are in E cond.

 

These seem to be the models most agree produce favorable results, but

what is the difference between the E and the F?

[sergio_ortega]

RJ,

 

From the descriptions and photos of the above mentioned models in my Rollei literature, there appear to be several differences between the E and F. Some differences are minor or cosmetic, and do not affect the operation.

 

The E did not have a removable hood, unless you used a screwdriver. The later E2, E3 and F models did. This MAY allow for easier changing of screens on the removable-hood models. It also allows one to easily use the Rollei prism viewer, and keep the camera's top end clean and dust free.

 

From the photos in my book, the E and E2 do not appear to have self timers, unless the self timer is in a totally different position on the E and E2. The E3, and the various F models do have the self timer in the usual position: the top right hand corner of the front lens panel.

 

It also looks like the E models have the EVS system, the F models do not. This is the "Exposure Value System", where the handheld meter EV could be locked into the Exposure Value System, and then, by turning the wheel, both aperture and shutter speed would correspond to the set EV scale. I've never actually used this EVS, so I cannot tell you how it works. Maybe others can.

 

The F models have the filter factor compensation dial, just below the focusing knob/meter, for dialing in the necessary number of filter factor compensation stops when using the camera's exposure meter. The photos of the E models do not show this feature.

 

Many of the E models did not have the meter. Most of the F models do. This should be easy enough for you to determine.

 

There may be other differences that I'm missing, maybe others can comment.

 

They all sound good. But, buying a used Rollei is like buying real estate, where the determining factor is location, location, location. With Rolleis, it's condition, condition, condition....

 

Good luck, Sergio.

[ken_munn]

Reinforcing Sergio's last comments, I wouldn't worry too much about exactly which model and age, rather more about condition.

 

Obviously F models replaced E's, so are younger. The F had a very long life span, starting in '58 and ending in '81. Essentially, the younger model you can find the better, but an young E might have been better cared for and less (ab)used than a young F.

 

Check everything very carefully, especially shutter speeds and film transport. Slow shutter speeds can become slower with age and lack of use. Often, just exercising the shutter (firing it a good few times) can loosen things up and put the speeds back online. The film transport system has a lot of cogs, cams, etc in it and these can wear with heavy, or heavy handed use. Shoot a film and look at the spacing between shots. A good one will give you almost even spacing. A bad one will jump all over the place, and frames may even overlap.

 

Problems with the lenses you can probably see on B or T setting by a close examination with the back open or removed (On my F the back latches off very easily, don't know if the same applies to the E).

 

Other common problems, apart from the obvious cosmetic ones, relate to twisting. Sometimes the back can have been twisted, meaning either (or both) the film pressure plate is out of parallel with the focus plane, making part or all of the shot o-o-f; or that there are light leaks and some fogging of the film. This should obvious with a careful examination. A common cause of back twist is use on a tripod without the proprietary Rolleifix accessory which transfers some of the stress caused by the tripod from the camera back into hard points in the camera chassis.

 

The lens panel can also get twisted meaning that what you see as in- focus through the viewing lens doesn't correspond with the focus achieved by the taking lens. This is fairly obvious if you wind the focus knob back to infinity. The gap between the lens panel and the camera body behind it should be uniform all the way around. If it's not, walk away or factor some repair dollars into the deal.

 

Another area to compare is the focus screen. These improved incrementally as the last century progressed, so younger is almost always brighter. However, this is still 30 year old glass (at least) and there is a thriving trade in supplying better focussing screens for these cameras. You'll find correspondence on this by using the search facility on photo.net.

 

By and large these machines were built to last, and you shouldn't worry about buying a 50 year old E if it looks better than a 30 year old F. Unless anything very peculiar is wrong, they are still repairable/refurbishable and you'll find correspondence on this by using the search facility on photo.net.

 

As to Planar vs Xenotar, it's an argument without resolution, some claim one, some claim the other, and the majority happily accept that either is an excellent performer. The Planar usually commands a higher price (all else in the cameras' conditions being equal) because it is more attractive to collectors. Just don't ask me why!

[greg_lawhon]

Sergio and Ken offer good information and advice, but I thought it would be worth correcting one thing in Ken's post about the age of the E models. Ken said condition was paramount in choosing between a 30-year-old F and a 50-year-old E. The E models are not that old, having been produced in the three-year period before release of the 3.5F and 2.8F.

 

The oldest that a 3.5E or 2.8E could be is 34 years. Production of the 3.5E was from October 1956 until February 1959, at which time the 3.5F Type 1 began. The 2.8E models were produced from October 1956 until September 1959, with 2.8F models coming out in 1960. And just to make things confusing, Rollei manufactured 3.5E2, 3.5E3, 2.8E2 and 2.8E3 models, which used parts from both the Es and Fs (the EVS interlock system from the Es and removable focusing hood from the Fs) until 1965.

 

I just thought RJ should know that the potential difference in age between an old F and any E is actually quite small.

[fwstutterheim]

I would like to add the E-model selenium exposure meter is uncoupled and the F-type meter is fully coupled. Check the meter against a known good working meter over the whole range. Selenium meters can become non-lineair and off little use. Modern screens by Maxwell or Beattie are much brighter than the original ones. You may want to replace the screen. Go for a camera with removable finder hood. Good luck.

[Spearhead]

Greg's math is off by 10 years. If a camera was made in 1956, it is 44 years old, not 34.

[greg_lawhon]

Hey, I just figured out why people made such a big deal about that 1990 New Year's Celebration we just had! Oops - you're right Jeff. It's tough getting old. Maybe I wanted to forget that I am 40 now too.

[alex_gilray]

I do not have the answer, but another question, I have a Rolleiflex that I puchased in the 1950's and always understood it was a " C " model. It has a 3.5 Xenotar lense it has the LVS, it does not have a removable hood, it has the lense for a light meter but is not installed. At the risk of confusing things possible some one could tell me exactly what I have. Thanks Alex Gilray.

[roger_michel]

if you plan to use the in-camera meter (which actually works quite well once you get the hang of it -- provided the meter is working properly), get the f. the meter is fully coupled. the uncoupled e meter is a real pain to use. you might as well use a better handheld uncoupled (obviously) meter. further, the f is LIKELY much newer than the e (check serial numbers with list in Ian Parker's Rollei guide or on numerous websites), and so likely has a better lens coating. Zeiss constantly upgrades its coatings. finally, consider resale value. it is MUCH easier to get a good price for an f than any other vintage 'flex model. needless to say, i echo all that has been written about the necessity of ensuring that the camera is in good working order -- especially vis-a-vis the alignment of the front standard and the smoothness of the focus rack (the latter really just a means of testing the former). as for shutters, while a sticky shutter MAY get less sticky with use, my LONG experience with leaf shutters (i'm really a LF person interloping on the MF forum) is that sticky shutters generally get WORSE with use as tacky lubricant cicrulates within the mechanism. you cannot be sure that a shutter isn't due for a CLA without firing all escapements forty or fifty times. if you see/hear any degradation in performance during that time -- even a single instance of sticking open -- you can be sure a CLA soon will be required. This, however, is not the end of the world. Unless one recently has been performed, you should probably plan to get a CLA for your new camera to make sure speeds, etc. are semi-accurate. It really isn't enough that the shutter fires at every speed -- the opening times have to be consistent and close to spec. a rollei is a pleasure to use and own. install a bright maxwell screen, pop in some tri-x (or my favorite for outdoors, pan-f) and live it up.

[jeff_obrien1]

I have my mother's old Rolleiflex TLR with the Xenotar 2.8 Schneider lens. I believe it to be from the early '50s, but not quite sure of the date. The exposure indicator is shot, and the focus screen could be a bit brighter ( saw one at a comera show for $1,600 with a VERY bright screen) but the lens is excellent. The pictures I get out of this camera are superior to anything I am able to do with my Contax 35 and Zeiss lens. Its the lens and the negative, but also there is something special about the perspective you get with the TLR - shooting down low it is tremendous for take kids.

 

By now I am sure you have made your purchase, so enjoy.

 

JOB