cd thacker Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 A recent "For Sale" post has prompted a discussion about the propriety of "For Sale / Want to Buy / Want to Trade" posts here in the Nikon forum. Todd Peach suggested (rightly) that it would be helpful to carry on this discussion in a thread of its own. Seeing the response its getting, I agree.<P> Up to now, I've thought that such posts as we're discussing are appropriate for the forum because: <P> 1) Forum participants become, after a time, familiar to each other, and one naturally feels more comfortable dealing with those one is familiar with (personally, I probably wouldn't buy from a name I didn't know, even if the sale was posted in this forum);<P> 2) Such posts are (supposed to be) clearly labeled "FS" (For Sale) or "WTB" (Want to Buy) or "WTT" (Want to Trade), thus making it a simple matter to skip them if one isn't interested in such things;<P> 3) The act of buying and trading among regulars adds, in my opinion, to the sense collegiality in the forum;<P> 4) I like seeing what's available and at what price, before others do.<P> 5) Such posts are allowed in the Leica forum and seem by and large to work well (though even there the practice has its detractors).<P> But, as I said in the "For Sale" post mentioned above, this is your forum, and I'll abide by the wishes of the majority. So, what say you to "For Sale/Trade/Want to Buy"? Yay? Or nay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_andrews Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Doug, I agree with you for all the reasons you listed. Besides, my experience with the forum was positive. I have used the FS/WTB Forum in the past and the results were a pleasure. The seller took the time to reassure me that she was legitimate, and as the buyer I did my best to fulfill her requests. I see the forum as a source of info, not as a replacement for eBay or online photo stores. It is a valuable source of information, all right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan_mcmorrin2 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I agree with all of the above. "Yay!" from me! All the best, Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_kelly1 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 The leica Photography forum has long allowed FS and WTB posts -preferring them to be made on fridays only. This works well and allows long-time forum members to buy and sell in their own community, among people they feel comfortable with. The photo.net classifieds are poorly indexed and the search engine often misses items that are actually there. Assuming Moderator can set things up so that such posts self-delete after a few days, I think we ought to give it a try..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric_. Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I agree fully with Doug. My FS post caused alot of responses that I don't understand really. After all there is a catagory that says FS/WTB...doesn't this mean that it is simply a part of this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Originally, I thought that this forum shouldn't compete or duplicate the Classified Section of photo.net, but Doug has made a very good argument that buying and selling within this forum contributes to the sense of community and people may feel more comfortable trading with people who frequently post here. One problem with the photo.net classified is that there no brand-specific category. Clearly Canon and Nikon dominate the SLR section, but I would imagine that very few people would be interested in both Canon and Nikon equipment at the same time. This forum is dedicated to Nikon and makes it easier for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd peach seattle, washi Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Nice summary, Doug. I agree. I'll add that I rarely surf the classifieds here, but I read all the Nikon threads (your F2AS was enticing Eric, but I just bought another one over Christmas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leif_goodwin8 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I can't say I agree with for sale and WTB posts in this forum: <UL><LI>They have a short shelf life after which they are irrelevant.</LI><LI>They add unnecesary bulk to the forum.</LI><LI>It makes it harder for me to scan through posts to locate ones of interest.</LI><LI>It makes posts that request information disappear into the archives sooner. (I think you only allow a fixed number of posts to appear in the main list.)</LI></UL> Admittedly it is not so bad at the moment, but I fear the forum could be swamped. Can I at least propose a limited life span for FS/WTB posts? Say 2 weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 There certainly should be a limited expiration period for FS/WTB postings in this forum. If the volume gets too large, perhaps there should be a separate "Nikon FS/WTB Forum" or we just use the regular photo.net classified, but that is something we can experiment with. In case this turns out to be a bad idea, I am sure Doug can make adjustments later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry n. Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I like being able to see what people are selling, and it is more satisfying to trade with someone you know. I do agree, however, that it does make searching more cumbersome, but this is really an issue for the photo.net search engine, which can be made more elegant in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 While I was an active member in the Olympus OM Mailing List disputes arose with increasing frequency and hostility over ads in the list, which was mainly a chummy forum for talking about gear and everything under the sun. The solution was to set up a separate list just for Olympus transactions: WTB, WTT, sale, etc. It's worked pretty smoothly for at least two years now. Folks tend to subscribe to both lists so the sense of collegiality remains. There are still occasional flare ups over other issues on the mailing list, but not related to transactions. The OM forum is given pretty free reign. The OM-Traders list is strictly moderated for transactions only. Me, I haven't followed the Nikon forum on photo.net long enough to offer my opinion about what should be done here. I haven't noticed any particular recurring problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Tardio Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I agree with what you purpose, Doug.<p>The only thing I don't like to see is someone offering a link to something up for auction on Eb*y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_green1 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Doug, I think we need to allow the FS/WTB posts here, for all of the reasons that have been mentioned. But I think that some commonsense rules should be applied to try to reign in the chaos a bit: I'm in favor of For Sale / Want to Buy posts, under the following conditions: 1) The title should be headed with the letters FS or WTB, so uninterested viewers can skip them without opening them. 2) The posts should be made for the benefit of the audience HERE, don't allow links to ebay auctions. 3) Individuals should post all of their items for sale in one post, not list each of a dozen items in 12 separate posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mskovacs Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I really don't see the problem with the photo.net classifieds but I'm with Doug as long as we can have these ads expire. I don't think the masses in the future need to know about the Nikkor X f/Y I sold 5 years ago. If I made use of FS/WTB/WTT here, I'd surely cross post to the photo.net classifieds. I hope that this practice wouldn't tick too many people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_alban Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I like to see these types of posts in here for all the reasons Doug listed. However, I also agree they should not be archived permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I concur with keeping the FS ads. Perhaps, like the Leica groups, we could limit these to one day a week (either Friday or Monday). This will keep the volume of posts down the rest of the week and give us something to look forward to at the beginning or end of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph_wisniewski Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 I quickly read the topic as "Admin For Sale" and wondered what the heck is going on. Personally, I don't like having a hard "don't post" rule until it becomes a real proble. I don't think we're anywhere near "problem" yet, not even particularly far into "annoying". Ciao! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd thacker Posted January 17, 2003 Author Share Posted January 17, 2003 Thanks for all the responses. I should say here that as far as I know there is no way to make threads expire early. Nor is there a lmitation on the number of posts that appear in the list. Rather, there is a limitation on the <I>time</I>: currently, posts are set to expire after seven days. This applies across the board.<P> Keep the opinions coming. I'm still reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Doug - I suggest you drop a line to Tony Rowlett, moderator of the Leica forum, to find out what rules and practices he and the forum have arrived at. It has taken a couple of years of mistakes, frustrations, and good/bad experiences there to arrive at an acceptable formula. No point in this forum reinventing the wheel and suffering avoidable mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 Doug, I moderate the Nature Forum here in photo.net and the moderators can manually set the expriation date (to 1, 2, 3 ..., 30, ... days) for any thread, but that is a manual job. Expired threads become hidden but not yet deleted. There is a separate button for the moderator to delete threads that have expired from the database. I suppose the same feature is available to other forums, including Nikon. The main downside is that this involves all manual work on the moderators' part. In the Nature Forum, we only use this feature occasionally, like a couple of times a week, on threads that don't need to stay permanentally in the archive. If there are a lot of FS/WTB threads, it means a lot of work for the moderator, namely Doug in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_briggs2 Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 I would rather not see ads here. My suggestion is to request PhotoNet to split the 35 mm SLR classified category into 35 mm SLR Canon, 35 mm SLR Nikon, and 35 mm SLR other. The existing 35 mm SLR category has for more ads than any other category and is ripe for splitting. See http://www.photo.net/gc/domain-top?domain_id=2 -- look at the bottom half of the page. If people decide that they want ads here, I vote for: 1) one day a week, say Friday, 2) "FS" should be included in the title, 3) price must be included, 4) no posting of auctions. If we are interested in stuff on ebay, we can go there! Having it on one day a week would make it easier for the moderators to delete old auctions or move them off of the main page, which they could do all at once, say on the following Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd frederick Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 This is my first visit to the Nikon forum...I will join in often from now on. I did not really know it existed! Most of my wedding stuff is Nikon. I participate in the Leica forum and strongly support FS/WTB postings for one strong reason: We know each other! There's trust. I am guessing that exists here. Secondary reason: it is often much faster to negotiate a deal through a forum than on the PN Classifieds since we can chat directly in almost real time. I support it (and I wish andrew on the MFD would do the same...listening Andrew?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mats nilson photography Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 I don't like ads here, at all. To me, these fora are for sharing of experiences, learning from other peoples mistakes, quick help from a large community etc. There is already a place for selling stuff on this site, why not use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 This entire discussion is somewhat moot. Since Doug started this thread 8 days ago, there has been exactly one new FS/WTB type post, which was posted my none other than me just to test the water (although it is a serious For Sale post). So far there has been so little traffic in this area that it doesn't really deserve so much time debating about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan_mcmorrin2 Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Has any conclusion been drawn on this, yet? Best, Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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