Digital Prints/Negatives

[rob_w.1]

Greetings all. I've search to see if this has been asked but

haven't quite found and answer so here goes.

I'm starting out on my own as a wedding photographer

and I'm working on pricing and packages. From what I've

gathered so far this is a subject of debate and I'm looking

for feedback, pros and cons, and experiences.

With regards to digital prints/negatives, do you go low-

res, unedited/retouched jpegs; Hi-res, unedited/retouched

jpegs, or Hi-res edited/retouched watermarked jpegs? So

give them an option and where would they fall percentage

side in your pricing (not looking for actual prices).

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Member69643]

<p>A lot depends on your goals as a wedding photographer. Why do you want to be a wedding photographer?</p>

[rob_w.1]

I love how photos evoke memories and catching small

but very significant moments that sometimes are more

sentimental than the obvious ones. Plus earn a decent

living

[shawn_mertz]

<p>Customers want the Files. Give them anything but full size not watermarked you will need to explain why, and it better be why what you do is better for them.</p>

[William Michael]

<blockquote>

<p>I'm starting out on my own as a wedding photographer and <strong>I'm working on pricing and packages.</strong> From what I've gathered so far this is a subject of debate and <strong>I'm looking for feedback, pros and cons, and experiences.</strong> With regards to digital prints/negatives, do you go low- res, unedited/retouched jpegs; Hi-res, unedited/retouched jpegs, or Hi-res edited/retouched watermarked jpegs? So <strong>give them an option and where would they fall percentage side in your pricing</strong> (not looking for actual prices). <strong>Any help is greatly appreciated.</strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>If you choose to give the Clients that range of options, your pricing should reflect the work (or the lack of work) that you would need to do (or not do) for each option.</p>

<p>For a <strong><em>simple</em></strong> example: COMPARING if you reckon that you will take 10 hours to make a shoot and supply 100 low resolution images on a USB Stick, but, on the other hand it will take 60 hours to shoot for the same time and supply 100 high quality prints, then the pricing for the latter must be at least 6 times greater than the former, (plus additional for the printing)</p>

<p>However, I would question the business decision to offer so many choices. I think it is better to <strong><em>define</em></strong> exactly what the business is, that you want to be in. Further, I think that niche is better than scatter gun.</p>

<p>***</p>

<blockquote>

<p><br /> I love how photos evoke memories and catching small but very significant moments that sometimes are more sentimental than the obvious ones. <strong>Plus earn a decent living</strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p><strong>ONE simple method</strong>:</p>

<p>To make a decent living, you will need to firstly evaluate (usually for a year) you total expenses:<br /> > Capital Expenses (amortized) (purchase and maintenance) (e.g. cameras; lenses; computer etc)<br /> > outgoings (i.e. routine expendables e.g. DVD discs; fuel; stationery etc)<br /> > overheads (cost of running business e.g. insurance, your wages, marketing & advertising etc)</p>

<p>You’ll then need to assess how many jobs you’ll need to get in a period (usually a year) to work out the break-even point and how assess much time you’ll need to work on other business stuff (like advertising, planning, cleaning, fixing, networking . . . etc)</p>

<p>For example:<br /> > if you cost your total expenses (<strong>without your wages</strong>) at $20,000 pa.<br /> > you expect that you need to work 10hrs per week for 50 weeks a year ON the business (that’s the other stuff listed above) that’s $25,000 wages you need to be paid by the business, for working ON it, whether you make a sale or not.<br /> > you cost your wages at $50.00 per hour<br /> > you offer only one package<br /> > that package requires 20 hours work for you to produce (that’s $1000 wages to you)</p>

<p>Then you can calculate:<br /> Expenses p.a. (<strong>without</strong> wages for shooting) = $20,000 (total expenses) + 25,000 (you working ON business) = $45,000<br /> > making 1 sale per year: cost to customer = ($45,000 + 1000) / 1 = $46,000 <br /> > making 2 sales per year: cost to customer = ($45,000 + 2000) / 2 = $23,500<br /> > making 3 sales per year: cost to customer = ($45,000 + 3000) / 3 = $16,000<br /> . . .<br /> > making 20 sales per year: cost to customer = ($45,000 + 20000) / 20 = $3,250</p>

<p>If you understand algebra:<br /> Selling Price per Service = (Fixed Costs p.a. + Wages per service) / (Number of services p.a.)</p>

<p>If the business to make a profit or to create CAPITAL for REINVESTMENT: you’ll need to charge more per service, because the simple calculations above only consider your wages. You, and the business, are separate entities.</p>

<p>WW</p>

[rob_w.1]

Thanx for all of your great advice. I really appreciate or

input. I will go over what you all have given me and start

evaluating what I need to do. Thanx again �

[William Michael]

<p>Don't rush. You only asked your questions yesterday - It is likely that there will be more points of view and advice forthcoming . . .</p>

[rob_w.1]

Oh I'm by no means rushing. This is a pretty hefty

decision to make so I'm still welcoming all input.

[Bill C]

Robert, in case you're not aware of it, this site also has a series of articles about wedding photography. You can probably find it under

the"Learn" tab at the top of the page. Some of these might be useful to you.

[Dave Gardner]

<p>We give hi-res with water mark...and 1 or 2 levels of editing depending on the image.</p>

[joe_morris2]

Hi,

Don't think anyone properly answered your question.

 

Keep it simple. I give jpegs , no watermark and full resolution edited. I just have the one package.

 

People want to know what it is going to cost without having to carry a computer with them to work out what the total cost is. I get so many

complaints from clients that when they approach a photographer and ask the cost they never get a straight answer, just get a load of

confusing packages thrown at them.

 

You will always get someone in response to a question regarding starting out in wedding photography going on about what you need your

pricing to be etc. Ignore all the negative comments.

 

Remember keep it simple.

[michaelmowery]

<p>For one, don't give anything away. If only for the sake of those who are trying to make a living at wedding photography as there only source of income. CHARGE for everything. The more time you put into post production you need to charge for it. If you feel the need to add value then include some prints or lower your price but don't give the files away. <br>

You should know what your hourly rate is for one. Next, you need to determine what price you want to sell all your files. Photographers seems to blur these lines and it has confused the clients over the years that the files should be included in their hourly rate. The better your photography the more of a premium you can place on your work.<br>

Photographers need to educate clients that files are a separate line item. Unfortunately there are many photographers out there who do this as extra income and they include (give away) the files. Or they do this because their photography is not that great. Or they don't want to be bothered with albums. This is still no excuse to include (give them away). Value must be placed on the files. This will help you and the industry. If you do bundle them in your package then increase your price let them know what the value is of owning the files. <br>

Everyone wants them so why doesn't the law of supply and demand work here? It's because of the misconception that digital if free. I remember when this started when digital first hit the market. Ten years later there has been a big back peddle to educate clients that the digital investment is 2 to 3x more expensive than film. Anyways thats all another topic.</p>

[shawn_mertz]

<p>excellent point Michael. I hope i didn't imply anything should be given away. </p>

[Ian Taylor]

<p>Just give them edited un-watermarked hi-res jpgs and walk away.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>Robert, wedding photography is no different from any other business.</p>

<p>The first step is to analyze the market you will be selling in … then determine how you fit into that market as a competitor. This analyst goes beyond what form you provide files, and what packages you may offer. To exaggerate the point, advice from a NYC wedding photographer would probably be quite different from one working in a small town in Iowa in almost every way.</p>

<p>Each person here may give advice that is skewed to their market situation, how competitive it may be, what clients may expect, what pricing thresholds may exist, and so on. It can also be skewed based on the photographer's level of experience, established reputation, and of course … their level of talent and winning personality when interacting with people.</p>

<p>For example, you probably wouldn't open a coffee house in a strip-mall with a Starbucks in it … unless you had some distinct Brand difference that offered consumers a real alternative. Because if you didn't, then the only difference you could offer is price with the risk of not making a profit and eventually losing out to Starbucks anyway.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>"I love how photos evoke memories and catching small but very significant moments that sometimes are more sentimental than the obvious ones. Plus earn a decent living."</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Both of these statements are not points of difference … they are basic requirements to be a successful wedding photographer.</p>

<p>While there are different degrees of sensitivity as a photographer, the difficulty comes in marketing how you differ from the next photographer that claims the same thing. Even IF you can demonstrate that affinity with actual work, it has to be something that the potential clients <em><strong>IN YOUR MARKET</strong></em> 1) are able to recognize, and 2) will pay enough for.</p>

<p>Pricing, what you offer and how you break it down usually falls into place once you establish what your competitive brand positioning will be in your marketplace.</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

<p>- Marc</p>

[michaelmowery]

<p>I know in my advice from the NYC photographer, I did not give a $ amount. I am sure I said the words you need to DETERMINE what your price should be. Obviously NYC prices will be higher. I wanted to make the point to NOT include the files meaning HIGH RESOLUTION in your price. There should be a separate price for those. This topic is such a mess in the industry that there is no right or wrong and everyone is all over the place as to what to include, give or sell. I can't answer your question directly as I am still navigating this issue myself. I can only give you my 20 years of experience in the photography field.<br /> In the film days Most professionals charged a fee but it did not include the negatives, they gave paper proofs.Today, with all the electronics most people don't print images as much and would rather see them on an iPad or other electronic device or social media. The low resolution files are todays proofs. So to this point even the low resolution files have a value. You could give low resolution to some clients and they would be perfectly happy. You are not doing a disservice to your client by not including the out of camera resolution files. Give them some low res files and charge an additional pre determined fee for the high resolution files, retouched not retouched whatever you want to do.<br /> I just did a job where my client wanted to use 50 of my images from a pre shoot, in a slideshow to display at there party. They used a third party vendor to do this. It was at that point I realized the value of screen resolution files. I figured out a price per file and had to negotiate a bit but in the end both myself and the client were happy. Had I included the files in the initial price on the pre shoot, I would have missed out on this sale and the third party vendor would have benefited from using my images. <br /> Place a value on your files and sell them accordingly at what ever price works in your hometown. Again, I am sorry I am not answering your question directly. Only you can determine what type of files you will give. And I hope that you would charge additional for any extra work you do on those files. Good luck</p>