Voigtlander Bessa 6x9 Models?

[eddie g.]

I have been looking at getting a low-price (but still pretty good)

6x9 camera for landscape use. The Fuji prices are well out of my

reach.

 

Can Voigtlander Bessa II live up to Fuji's sharpness given the 40-

year or so age difference? I've noticed it comes with 2 different

lens options, the base Color Skopar 105mm/3.5 which demanded about

$119 at its itroduction and Color Heliar 105mm/3.5 at about $159 when

it first came out. Is there a huge optical difference between these

two lenses to justify the approximate $400 price difference in the

current used market?

 

And, how does the model II compare to the original Voigtlander Bessa

(optically)? I am hoping to shoot color negatives with it.

 

Thanx....

[julian_bell1]

Forget the bessa and get a Mokba 5 for $65,- from http://www.camerasrussian.com/

I have the Mokba 2 and it makes sharp fotos at f8-11, it's a coated, tessar type lens and even the brickwork in the corners of my 6 x 9 negs looks good.

I have never bought from the site but the price seem reasonable.

[al_kaplan1]

The Color Skopar is a 4 element tessar type lens. The Color Heliar has a 5 element design. At wider apertures the Heliar should be a bit sharper. By the time you stop down to f/8 or 11 there won't be much difference. A lot more cameras were probably produced with the Skopar than the Heliar. I suspect that a lot of the high price of the Heliar Bessas is driven by folks who collect them. I had a Skopar on a 6x9cm press camera and it was very sharp. The post WW-II Bessas had coated lenses. As long as you have a coated lens you should be fine shooting color negatives. Try to find a lens hood to fit. Some older dealers have "junk boxes" full of old hoods, filters and adapters.

[garvey_p]

Just for kicks--converting those 1950 prices (as seen on the old 1950 ad posted on Monghan's site, I presume) to 2002 dollars:

 

The $115 Bessa II with Skopar = $858.21

 

The $152.50 model with Heliar = $1138.06

 

 

Are you sure Fuji prices are well out of your reach? I mean, if you are considering the Bessa II with Heliar, they're about the same (or within a hundred bucks) as a like new Fuji 690. Also, when pricing a Bessa (I or II), you might need to factor in a CLA and/or bellows replacement (despite seller claims to the contrary), which combined could cost $120-$200, sometimes more.

[jerry_hyman2]

Eddie, I have owned the Bessa I, Bessa II with both the Color Skopar, and the Heliar. They are fun cameras but I think you will be dissapointed if you use them for frequent landscapes. Even the Bessa II is very manual in that you have to use the ruby window to advance to the next frame and the viewfinder is VERY small. Also, even though my camera had its front standard aligned properly many of the Bessas are problematic in that area. I found the Heliar to be very sharp and the Skopar to very close in sharpness. I have also owned two of the Moskva 5 cameras and did not like the cameras because there did not have even sharpness towards the outer edges. However, some owners have had great luck with them so I quess the cameras were not produced with consistent quality controls. Lense hoods are difficult to fit on the Russian camera and you will need to change out the tripod bushing to something standard (easy enough to do).

 

The bottom line is that I would advice against buying one for that purpose and instead get the Fuji which will have a better lense, better alignment, and is easier to use. If you want a great little roll film camera to just carry with you that is "vintage" look at the Perkeo II with the color skopar lense.

 

Hope this helps!

 

-Jerry

[andrew_schank]

See my description of the bessa II in the other folder thread going right now. You are not going to see much if any difference in your images due to the lenses. Its going to be more if the camera is tight and calibrated and the lenses are in excellent shape inside and out. Ergonomics on any of the old 6X9 folders are cumbersome at best. I like the Bessa II, but don't use it as much as I thought I would becasue of this. Forget the Russian foldersd unless you want a new defination of poor build quality and ergonomics. Some people may have lucked out and actually found a decent working camera, but the few I encountered were by far worst folders I ever had my hands on.

[tito sobrinho]

I would like to have a Bessa II with a 105mm Apo-Lanthar. But, they are very expensive!!!

[tata_ghosh]

Eddie,

 

As Garvey has said before me, your price calculations are not right. A Bessa II with Heliar is not less expensive than a Fuji GW690III, if you include the CLA of the Bessa. Plus, instead of the GW690III you could prefer the GSW690III (wide version) for your purpose - that choice doesn't exist with the Bessa. Dale Photographic of the UK(www.dalephotographic.co.uk) is currently offering a NEW GW690III with warranty and everything at GBP 577 (+VAT : but VAT will not apply to exports if you order from the US say). So, the price of e-bay ones must drop in future (recently they have been a bit high).

 

But price calculations apart, I'm glad you asked the question and I'm glad to see that many have replied saying that the Fuji optics are superior (some have said that the Heliar could be as sharp - individual opinions; but importantly, there are opinions on the issue!). When I asked a general question about comparing these types of lenses a couple of days ago, most people pretended that such a question could never even arise in any real practical situation! Wonder why the guys who have compared the BessaII and Fuji optics here, didn't contribute in that thread. Of course, I was going for lens qualities apart from sharpness there....

[patric_dahl_n]

If you want a Bessa, you can get a Bessa I with Skopar or Heliar much cheaper. Around $40 instead of hundreds of $$$. Skopar is a fine lens, sharp and contrasty. Heliar is as sharp but somewhat smoother, not as contrasty as Skopar, superb bokeh (almost 3D sometimes!). Another cameras in the same style and price range are Zeiss Ikonta and the east german Zeiss Ercona. Look for those with Tessar. <BR><BR>I have a Voigtländer Bergheil 6,5x9 plate camera with the 105/4,5 Heliar lens. It's a treasure. :-)

[classcamera]

Why are you so intent on a bessa, when you can have a super Ikonta C for around 200 bucks? I am also curious why you are so interested in coated optics? I have shot hundreds of picutes with an uncoated Tessar, and found that it gives excellent color, and great contrast in black and white. Also, be carefull when buying an Ikonta, if the range finder is off in the vertical it will cost at least a 100 to fix it, off in the horizontal is no big problem and should not excede 25 bucks for the repair. Also, many of the other people on this forum are quoting repairs at 135+ for a CLA, that camera repairman is grossly over charging! I will go completely through a folding camera for around 50 bucks. Happy shooting, Mark

[chris_waller]

Have a look at a Mamiya Press, Press 23 or Press Universal. These are 6x9 cm format. I have the 23 but at present it is not in use since the light seals have perished and I have yet to get it repaired.

[crackers_.]

Collectors' influence on supply and demand can really distort prices for users. Low price, Heliar, and Skopar don't go together. No folder is in the Fuji class.

 

Why start experimenting at the top? For twenty bucks, a Franka/Schneider/Prontor combo is nearly awesome. You can drop it in a raging river and not cry over it. Alternatively, you can throw it into the river in a rage and not look back.

 

The most expensive folder lenses compare only to cheaper folders and the difference is diminished, if present at all, at nature/static/tripod apertures.

 

I can almost guarantee happiness for under a hundred dollars. I'm absolutely certain you can buy misery for four times that.